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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First, take a moment to reflect upon the fact that while Ram sales continue to increase and have never been better, by the time the 5th gen is out the 4th gen will have spanned 3 generations of GM trucks; so Ram must be doing something right (and have been for some time) with the 4th gens. Guy65 I know you're going to have a laugh at me for posting this, but know that I am laughing back because you always talk of going to Chevy if the Hemi goes away.

Second, brace yourself because the sky will be falling in less than two years. Then read this new article on the upcoming 2019 Silverado; there's talk of a turbo four :SHOCKED:

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2019-chevrolet-silverado-1500-spy-photos-news?src=socialflowFB


Why do I find this so alarming when Ford has been using engines that are too small for their job and then adding turbos to bring them up to snuff since 2011? Well, because Ford just does weird, European type stuff:

-aluminum bodies
-overhead cams
-tiny turbo engines

But remember when GM dropped their powertrain warranty to 60,000 miles so Ram did too because there was no competitor providing incentive for them to keep it at 100,000 miles? This is a sign that the truck market is trending in this direction rather than rebuking Ford for their turbo six idea; and that GM is indeed trying to beat Ford at their own game if they really do implement this turbo four. Now it comes as no surprise to anyone capable of individual thought that tiny turbos are really just emissions and MPG test cycle beaters, but this thing will have to be packing some serious boost in order to handle truck duty, and longevity would very much be a concern.

I believe that we are living in the golden age of pickup trucks, similar to how we are currently in a muscle car renaissance. 40 years from now we will look back on these days like people do now back to the late 60s and early 70s reminiscing about their 7 liter Chevelles and Barracudas, only for us it will be our trucks that could be had with V8s. Makes me concerned for the 5th gens.

So buy a V8...while you still can
 

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I don't see turbo 4s as inherently a problem, by offering it they can keep v8 around longer. We are approaching the limit of what a NA V6 gas engine can do in a 1/2 ton when the 2wd models are stuck somewhere around 25mpg. It's no secret that the 1500's growth is largely due to the commuter crowd, if they want to buy turbo 4s for stop and go commuting, I certainly don't care.

The bigger threat I see is the increasing complexity of pickups. All the cameras, sensors, electronics, gizmos, all add to the cost of long time ownership.
 

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No, NO! NOOOO! HERESY!!!!!!! We must muster for a crusade!!!! PURGE THE HERESY BEFORE IT BREEDS!

*degenerates into a twitching wreck hissing something about component fatigue and desgin limit of parts*
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ol' Thunderhorse is fixin' to start trolling pick n' pull for Eagle Hemis to build. I figure 3 will last me until I die while leaving a spare for emergencies.

Off to buy an engine hoist
 

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Ol' Thunderhorse is fixin' to start trolling pick n' pull for Eagle Hemis to build. I figure 3 will last me until I die while leaving a spare for emergencies.

Off to buy an engine hoist
You can borrow mine if you ever come by ohio.....I don't use it often enough to care it ifs missing for a few months!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You can borrow mine if you ever come by ohio.....I don't use it often enough to care it ifs missing for a few months!
Lol let me know when the salt is gone
 

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Lol let me know when the salt is gone
Soon I hope....I am refraining from starting my ram till it's gone. I just realized how badly I am suffering from TQ withdrawals when I drove my dad's truck. I will say.....if you keep the hemi over 4000 rpm at all time it's quite fun as far as TQ is concerned.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Soon I hope....I am refraining from starting my ram till it's gone. I just realized how badly I am suffering from TQ withdrawals when I drove my dad's truck. I will say.....if you keep the hemi over 4000 rpm at all time it's quite fun as far as TQ is concerned.
When you need to dig a heavy trailer up a hill from a stop 4000 is about where you want it at. IIRC peak torque is right above 4k. I can't remember at what point the intake runner shortens

So its all back together and ready to go then?
 

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When you need to dig a heavy trailer up a hill from a stop 4000 is about where you want it at. IIRC peak torque is right above 4k. I can't remember at what point the intake runner shortens

So its all back together and ready to go then?
Almost, technically I can fire it but I want to wait for my fuel system to get here. (As in it's 1500$ and I need just a little more $$$ to place the order)
 

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First, take a moment to reflect upon the fact that while Ram sales continue to increase and have never been better, by the time the 5th gen is out the 4th gen will have spanned 3 generations of GM trucks; so Ram must be doing something right (and have been for some time) with the 4th gens. Guy65 I know you're going to have a laugh at me for posting this, but know that I am laughing back because you always talk of going to Chevy if the Hemi goes away.

Second, brace yourself because the sky will be falling in less than two years. Then read this new article on the upcoming 2019 Silverado; there's talk of a turbo four :SHOCKED:

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2019-chevrolet-silverado-1500-spy-photos-news?src=socialflowFB


Why do I find this so alarming when Ford has been using engines that are too small for their job and then adding turbos to bring them up to snuff since 2011? Well, because Ford just does weird, European type stuff:

-aluminum bodies
-overhead cams
-tiny turbo engines

But remember when GM dropped their powertrain warranty to 60,000 miles so Ram did too because there was no competitor providing incentive for them to keep it at 100,000 miles? This is a sign that the truck market is trending in this direction rather than rebuking Ford for their turbo six idea; and that GM is indeed trying to beat Ford at their own game if they really do implement this turbo four. Now it comes as no surprise to anyone capable of individual thought that tiny turbos are really just emissions and MPG test cycle beaters, but this thing will have to be packing some serious boost in order to handle truck duty, and longevity would very much be a concern.

I believe that we are living in the golden age of pickup trucks, similar to how we are currently in a muscle car renaissance. 40 years from now we will look back on these days like people do now back to the late 60s and early 70s reminiscing about their 7 liter Chevelles and Barracudas, only for us it will be our trucks that could be had with V8s. Makes me concerned for the 5th gens.

So buy a V8...while you still can
RAM fans are safe for a while anyway. According to the gurus, the HEMI will be around for a while for RAM trucks. Evidently they've invested in the HEMI once again and they also say that...The next power plant we see "will be something new that will surprise many"...also added.."WAY different than anything currently in the lineup"..."that should be very fun".
OK, I am fine with all that......as long as its a god blessed V8!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
RAM fans are safe for a while anyway. According to the gurus, the HEMI will be around for a while for RAM trucks. Evidently they've invested in the HEMI once again and they also say that...The next power plant we see "will be something new that will surprise many"...also added.."WAY different than anything currently in the lineup"..."that should be very fun".
OK, I am fine with all that......as long as its a god blessed V8!!!
Like this, apparently rumored turbo 5.7?

http://www.allpar.com/news/2017/02/wheres-the-hemi-going-36523

I guess its a thing, at least the rumor is
 

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The bigger threat I see is the increasing complexity of pickups. All the cameras, sensors, electronics, gizmos, all add to the cost of long time ownership.
This is a VERY real concern. Makes new cars disposable...at the rate the tech is progressing, a new car will be obsolete in a matter of a few years. In 10 years from now, How are they going to keep up with the upkeep of 15-20 year old vehicles? It will only get exponentially worse as the years go by.

Here's an eye opener that happened to me last December. We took my wife's Disco in for its $150 oil change.....$135 with a coupon....The only thing they did besides the oil change was a "battery management update"...a computer download.
When I get the vehicle back, after driving all the way home, I realize that the blend doors in the climate control system wont open. Im just getting a whisp of warm air out any given vent. Wouldn't be so bad except we were leaving on a ski trip in 6 hours.....made the travel portion of the trip a real PITA...but I digress.
So I take the Disco back in when we return from our trip. Evidently, the computer controls the blend doors. So they had to reset the system. I pick it up and test before I leave that all the vents are blowing air the way they should be when selected. But the service writer had the AC on when I was testing the vents so it wasn't blowing warm air. SO off I went. I turned off the AC and drove home. I get almost all the way home and I notice that the air is NOT blowing hot. I take it back in the next day....turns out the computer controls the temperature and the WHOLE system needed to be reloaded. Its basically the same way in the current RAM trucks. Everything is intertwined with the computer system. Its going to get to the point that people will not be able to own a car long term. If you dont have an extended warranty, what happens when the computer shits the bed and nothing works? How much will that set you back? Might as well total the car.....
How much will it cost you for all the computer downloads, updates and reloads when stuff starts going wrong after warranty is up? As for extended warranties?...How much longer will extended bumper to bumper warranties be available or affordable? Lots of unknowns on the horizon....:smiledown:
Ive pretty much come to accept that if I dont settle down with a long term car or truck soon, Im doomed to buy new every couple of years. Makes leasing look very attractive. With my car addiction, that very well may be my best option. :SHOCKED:
 

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This is a VERY real concern. Makes new cars disposable...at the rate the tech is progressing, a new car will be obsolete in a matter of a few years. In 10 years from now, How are they going to keep up with the upkeep of 15-20 year old vehicles? It will only get exponentially worse as the years go by.

Here's an eye opener that happened to me last December. We took my wife's Disco in for its $150 oil change.....$135 with a coupon....The only thing they did besides the oil change was a "battery management update"...a computer download.
When I get the vehicle back, after driving all the way home, I realize that the blend doors in the climate control system wont open. Im just getting a whisp of warm air out any given vent. Wouldn't be so bad except we were leaving on a ski trip in 6 hours.....made the travel portion of the trip a real PITA...but I digress.
So I take the Disco back in when we return from our trip. Evidently, the computer controls the blend doors. So they had to reset the system. I pick it up and test before I leave that all the vents are blowing air the way they should be when selected. But the service writer had the AC on when I was testing the vents. SO off I went. I turned off the AC and drove home. I get almost all the way home and I notice that the air is NOT blowing hot. I take it back in the next day....turns out the computer controls the temperature and the WHOLE system needed to be reloaded. Everything is intertwined with the computer system. Its going to get to the point that people wil not be able to own a car long term. If you dont have an extended warranty, what happens when the computer shits the bed and nothing works? How much will that set you back? Might as well total the car.....
How much will it cost you for all the computer downloads, updates and reloads when stuff starts going wrong after warranty is up? As for extended warranties?...How much longer will extended bumper to bumper warranties be available or affordable? Lots of unknowns on the horizon....:smiledown:
Ive pretty much come to accept that if I dont settle down with a long term car or truck soon, Im doomed to buy new every couple of years. Makes leasing look very attractive. With my car addiction, that very well may be my best option. :SHOCKED:
Don't worry, soon the frame and body will be polymer so you can easily return it to the nearest EPA recycling center.

It's gonna be "hilarious" when people with lower income can't own cars at all since they can't afford the newest model and the older ones are all shorting out.
 

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Don't worry, soon the frame and body will be polymer so you can easily return it to the nearest EPA recycling center.

It's gonna be "hilarious" when people with lower income can't own cars at all since they can't afford the newest model and the older ones are all shorting out.
True, true....Stuff to think about. I think it will hit lower income especially hard but I think even some medium income folks are going to have difficulties with it.

Fact is, I am going to have to pace myself better on my vehicle purchases as I get older but Im pretty confident I will be able to continue to afford nice vehicles for as long as I can drive and I do feel very fortunate to enjoy this kind of golden age of vehicles. Im not going to lie, I like the gizmos, safety, capabilities and power of this current pinnacle of automotive evolution. The difference between what Im driving now versus the new vehicles I was driving just 10 to 15 years ago is staggering and they make the new cars I was driving in the 90's look absolutely ancient. But I do have concerns for the very thing you mentioned for my daughter.

Hopefully things will work themselves out. LOL

Meh, maybe we are fretting too much...Maybe we are approaching the pinnacle of the automotive industry.....vehicles are getting more and more unobtainable all the time. $30K was the new $20K....$40k was the new $30K...$50K is the new $40K....its not stopping. LOL! The automotive industry WILL NOT put itself out of business. Eventually, after tech and pricing reach terminal velocity, they will simply be forced to step back and offer a "basic" line of cars that people can afford again. Its going to get to a point where a lot of people wont care about Heads Up Displays, rain sensing wipers, 360 cameras, butt warmers and coolers and constant vehicle connectivity (they'll find other means of connectivity) because they can no longer afford it... and they'll just want a cheap, reliable, decent and safe vehicle to get from point A to point B. The automakers will be forced to respond in kind.
 

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RAM fans are safe for a while anyway. According to the gurus, the HEMI will be around for a while for RAM trucks.
Considering its take rate in not just the trucks but also the Charger and Challengers which are basically licenses to print money, Sergio would be an extreme risk taker to try to shake up that recipe.
 

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I read the report and they clearly say- the 5.3 will still be the volume model and the 4-banger as alibi - engine. Btw- if anybody knows about engines and turbos, then they also know- turbo engines are not as clean as said. They have way more fine dust particles and they have a serious problem with a full combustion, because the engine runs faster at a certain spot (mostly at max peak) than the fuel can completely burn. The real work is done at the catalytic converter, but this is, how the name says, just a converter, not an eliminator. Ergo- turbo is not the solution. The only reason why they go to the turbos is, that they deliver the same torque like a twice as big engine with lower emissions in the TEST-SEQUENCE RANGE. In real life, they never run in this conditions and throwing the dirt out faster than a 1903 wood fired locomotive.
I would say- If the infrastructure would go to a better supply in natural gas or LPG, THIS would be a real hammer. Same engines, same fuel consumption, half the price of gasoline and not even half of the emissions of a current conventional gasoline engine. My question is- why does nobody do this? With a full gas engine (the hemi and all other V8 can easily be converted without any risks or concerns) they would beat the EPA for years to come. For example- in Europe it's very common, every gas station sells LPG and due to my contacts over there I know, everybody driving a US Car there- regardless what- has a LPG Tank. A RAM with 220L LPG tank has the same range than with gas and because LPG is cheaper, you can drive a RAM over there for the same amount of money you spend at a midsize sedan.
All it needs is infrastructure. If this would be given- hell- even here in the US I would have a LPG Tank under the bed. I really love this technic. The best part- with LPG Tanks you can double the range, because it automatically changes from gas to LPG and back as needed.
Why they ain't doing it here? Because gasoline is cheap. And companies making money with gasoline. That's why. It's not about emissions or environment, it's about making money. My only question is- who bribes the EPA to make such ridiculous regulations, which target one specific industry, ready to kill it off.
I also know for sure (don't ask me where I got that from- would not be allowed to tell)- The 6.4L Hemi is the future and will be around, when the 5.7 is long forgotten in the new vehicle manufacturing. The hemi is long not fully developed. there is so much to do on it what increases power and lowers emissions and fuel consumption.
The problem is more- the half ton trucks having a different regulation than the 3/4 ton trucks. I expect the 5.7L going away in the 1500 due to EPA regulations, but it will be around long time in the 2500, which does not fall under those regulations. that's the difference between LD and HD.
Because the trend goes more and more in the direction, that people leaning more towards the 2500, because it can simply do more than the 1500 without being significant bigger or even more expensive (a normal 2500 5.7L Hemi with 4x4 is offered already right above $33000 at a dealer right around the corner- and same interior like my SLT).
The 1500 will be fired by a Italian stallion twin- turbo V6 and will maybe get the 5.7 as SRT in such ridiculous price range, that it never will become a volume model, but that RAM can say- we have a V8 in the LD class, but it does not bother the fleet emissions.
A 4 banger in a 1500. what idiot came up with that? they really got another thing coming. what do they think? the worst part- you will always find an idiot buying it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
That's what the "how far is too far" thread was about, more and more expensive technology being mandated to the point that people can't afford it. We will turn into Singapore where the commoners don't own cars or live in Malaysia and commute.

Its no secret that tiny turbos are nothing more than emissions and MPG test cycle beaters, and even if you weren't told it isn't hard to figure out on your own.

A 5.7 SRT...IDK about that. Maybe a 6.4.

I'll keep this truck running as long as possible, at this rate even a new computer will be cheaper than a new car by the time Im in the market
 

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See- I'm in the lucky position, that I can buy any time my "last" truck- and it will be a 2500 with 6.4L Hemi. I retire in about 14 years and 7 months. means in 10 years, the hemi will still be around. If I see, that things are changing before that, I buy before that. And that's it. I know, when I'm retired, I never will get as much miles on it, like I do now, so it will last me forever, because I ain't got nothing else to do, than keeping the truck up (maybe mowing the lawn and do all that honey-do-list-stuff).
I feel sorry for the millenials. I mean at least for the ones where the brain is not bread away yet (they say, some are around with a real brain). But even the brainless will figure out one day.


Btw- when you can't get anything else than a v6 or a tt-v6, a 5.7 srt is not so far off. I expect the hemi reaching ~450hp over the next 5-8 years. that's easy possible with some modifications at ignition, timing and injection. And when they even go with double overhead cam and 4 valves per cylinder- wait what that does.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
If its OHC its not a Hemi
 
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