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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First off there is a fair amount of information on the web about the benefits/downfalls of each. Does anyone have dyno sheets for the short tubes? AMRH has the dyno for the LT's on the website which is nice. I don't think that I'm 100% sold on the benefits of the long tubes for $1000 less I can get shorties that will open up the exhaust a fair amount. Is there a point where you are making enough power to make the margin between the two styles of headers negligible? I'm comparing the the AMRH to the JBAs of course, I think these are the only options for us 4th gen guys. Tax return time is approaching quickly and I've already ordered my new e-fan, 16 plugs (one step cooler, intentions for a 100shot :smileup:), 180t-stat installed and I think I'm going to buy a K&N intake to replace the AFE I have but this is all a new subject.

Thanks for any info guys and gals!!!

Matt.
 

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haven't seen any JBA dyno sheets yet. AMRH also recommends custom tuning which would add to the price difference but also to the hp difference. Some people have had problems with codes popping after their L/T install if they didn't get a custom tune.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
haven't seen any JBA dyno sheets yet. AMRH also recommends custom tuning which would add to the price difference but also to the hp difference. Some people have had problems with codes popping after their L/T install if they didn't get a custom tune.
Sorry I forgot to mention that either way the truck is getting tuned, I have a crower cam and single piece rods chillin behind my passenger seat and I just paid inertia for my tune with the intentions of getting everything installed sometime this month. So either header will be tuned for my application...I've been leaning towards the shorties lately as my intentions are to keep it mild for daily driving and then turn all systems go at the 1/4 mile. The money saved might get flipped into a drop kit or something.
 

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JBA said they have not actually got any dyno numbers on our 4th gens yet. he said they are working on it!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
JBA said they have not actually got any dyno numbers on our 4th gens yet. he said they are working on it!
How recently was this? thanks for the info.

Guess I should shift my thread then to say are Long tubes "really" worth the extra $1000?? :box:

My current plans are e-fan swap, 180t-stat, intake, exhaust (headers undecided), camshaft, cmr tune, and a 100 shot for the track.
 

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I don't really think the longtube headers are worth the money..I almost think I got more of a butt dyno gain from my crappy aFe stage 2 intake! Plus now it feels like my truck surges under load at low rpms, so the drivability has gone down. They're good quality headers, I just think they're too expensive. Plus the surging really pisses me off.
 

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IMO you will be better off with the shorties. with a daily driver just getting rid of the logs that pass for exhaust manifolds will be much better. long tubes are going to give u top end and some mid-range. on my daily commute at 75 mph i'm at 2 grand on the tach. long tubes are not going to give you anything there.
 

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IMO you will be better off with the shorties. with a daily driver just getting rid of the logs that pass for exhaust manifolds will be much better. long tubes are going to give u top end and some mid-range. on my daily commute at 75 mph i'm at 2 grand on the tach. long tubes are not going to give you anything there.
Some good info there! I was always told long tubes give lots of power down low..I haven't felt any of it. Either torque management is stealing any extra power down low, or the long tubes don't give any extra power at low RPMs. But at WOT around 45 MPH, the truck does wake up pretty good and I do feel some gains. But from all the mods I've done, I've felt the most from my CAI. Which is weird cause the aFe design sucks..and I wanna replace it with a Vararam :LOL:
 

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Remember we are talking about an engine that is nothing more than a pump.. The efficency of the "pump" at high rpms demands more air to be moved thru the system. That is where the LT's come into their own as the rpm's and the power band moves up. The most important thing to remember is that torque is what you are looking for as much as HP we are moving a big bunch of mass in a truck. the power band for a track car truck whatever will be between 4 grand and 6 to 7 grand not much use on the street.
 

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Are you installing the cam yourself if you need any help just let me know?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for all the input, I am confused on how long tubes make more power through the band. I was under the influence that for the top end the shorties would shine. As i intend to do mostly hwy travel with no towing my rt is over 2g on the tach at 75mph (4.10s woot). i think ill get the shorties (coated) based on the input.

ramtex, I'm actually a service advisor at a dodge dealership and I'm going to arrange the install with one one of our mechanics thanks for the offer
 

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Thanks for all the input, I am confused on how long tubes make more power through the band. I was under the influence that for the top end the shorties would shine. As i intend to do mostly hwy travel with no towing my rt is over 2g on the tach at 75mph (4.10s woot). i think ill get the shorties (coated) based on the input.

ramtex, I'm actually a service advisor at a dodge dealership and I'm going to arrange the install with one one of our mechanics thanks for the offer
Had a dodge mechanic set the timing on mine too using dealer connect and he biffed big time... Just want too make sure you get it right the first time... If you do get headers i would advise you to put them on when you do the cam install and put them on the heads outside the truck you will save about an hour of install time this way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ramtex, thanks for the concern I really appreciate it, my mechanic has done a few cam swaps as well as a 3rd gen which he owns. I've taken the liberty of showing him the timing instructions off your 400stroker build thread, which is amazing btw, down the road (after University) I'd like to do a similar build with a supercharger :D

As for the headers I will be getting the local muffler shop to do it at the same time as I do the rest of the exhaust, I called MBRP and they are helping me put together a kit for a true dual setup (x pipe, 2 2.5inch mufflers, and the piping to the tails) From here I decided it might be best to just get the shop to put it all together seeing as it may not be a direct bolt on like I'm used to -I also lack a wielder :( -
 

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Ramtex, thanks for the concern I really appreciate it, my mechanic has done a few cam swaps as well as a 3rd gen which he owns. I've taken the liberty of showing him the timing instructions off your 400stroker build thread, which is amazing btw, down the road (after University) I'd like to do a similar build with a supercharger :D

As for the headers I will be getting the local muffler shop to do it at the same time as I do the rest of the exhaust, I called MBRP and they are helping me put together a kit for a true dual setup (x pipe, 2 2.5inch mufflers, and the piping to the tails) From here I decided it might be best to just get the shop to put it all together seeing as it may not be a direct bolt on like I'm used to -I also lack a wielder :( -
Just make sure he pulls that oil pump off to check the crank gear is aligned with the chain marks. If you havent looked at this or have not downloaded it yet it is a total lifesaver...

http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=72221
 

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Ramtex, thanks for the concern I really appreciate it, my mechanic has done a few cam swaps as well as a 3rd gen which he owns. I've taken the liberty of showing him the timing instructions off your 400stroker build thread, which is amazing btw, down the road (after University) I'd like to do a similar build with a supercharger :D

As for the headers I will be getting the local muffler shop to do it at the same time as I do the rest of the exhaust, I called MBRP and they are helping me put together a kit for a true dual setup (x pipe, 2 2.5inch mufflers, and the piping to the tails) From here I decided it might be best to just get the shop to put it all together seeing as it may not be a direct bolt on like I'm used to -I also lack a wielder :( -
I'd love to see how you weld the x pipe onto the headers...I installed headers and true duals, and my exhaust shop had to weld a y pipe onto the the ARH y pipe to make an 'x pipe'. Unless you get the shorty headers, then you wouldn't have that problem.

Here's a thread discussing that problem.

http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?p=722472#post722472
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
I'd love to see how you weld the x pipe onto the headers...I installed headers and true duals, and my exhaust shop had to weld a y pipe onto the the ARH y pipe to make an 'x pipe'. Unless you get the shorty headers, then you wouldn't have that problem.

Here's a thread discussing that problem.

http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?p=722472#post722472
Read this also :D great info. Decided I'm going for the shorties with custom catted mid pipes to the x, should be fun

also thanks for all the help Ramtex
 

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Read this also :D great info. Decided I'm going for the shorties with custom catted mid pipes to the x, should be fun

also thanks for all the help Ramtex
Yeh if you you guys need any help at all just let me know and ill give you my cell. If you get lost or confused about something...
 

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ARe you guys kidding me? This guy is about to be cam w/ nitrous and you guys are saying shorties will be just as good"?


Agreed that most of the time long tubes dont do much for the truck, but on your daily commute neither does a cam, or nitrous, or a stroker kit, or any of the mods really.

OP if your building a race truck, weather it be a serious ordeal or not, Your cam is going to shift your powerband north, which is where LTs shine. A good tuner that knows his stuff will make a truck with LTs drive like stock. Dont spend all this money on ACTUAL go fast mods then screw it all up now...
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
ARe you guys kidding me? This guy is about to be cam w/ nitrous and you guys are saying shorties will be just as good"?


Agreed that most of the time long tubes dont do much for the truck, but on your daily commute neither does a cam, or nitrous, or a stroker kit, or any of the mods really.

OP if your building a race truck, weather it be a serious ordeal or not, Your cam is going to shift your powerband north, which is where LTs shine. A good tuner that knows his stuff will make a truck with LTs drive like stock. Dont spend all this money on ACTUAL go fast mods then screw it all up now...
At the low to mid end, the best way to maximize your scavenging effect, thus helping to maximize your engine's V.E., Is to move the exhuast out of the engine as fast as possible, or with as much velocity as possible. Long tubes work best for this because of their length, and their width (well, lack of width). Thier length allows an elongated path for the gas to flow, thus allowing the gas to leave the cylinder with more speed because the gas has more time to gain velocity before it hits the collector.

Now, you've heard car enthusiasts state that ANY restriction is bad for a motor, no matter what. This is not completly true, in your exhaust, small, strategically placed, smooth mandrel restrictions can be a good thing due to the fact that well place, correct sized restrictions followed by larger openings actually speed up exhuast gas flow. So the smaller diameter tubes actually serve your scavenging better in the mid and low ranges.

Mid and low ranges dont produce alot of actual exhuast volume, so small tubes dont restrict or "back up" flow.

LARGE, SHORT TUBE HEADERS MAKE FOR "LAZY" EXHUAST GAS SPEED WHEN EXHUAST VOLUME IS LOW!! (as it is in the low and mid range).

However, if you dont even begin to tip into your power band untill about 3700, you may consider short tubes. High RPM operation in a big motor (not talking about 4 bangers here), yeild LARGE amounts of exhuast gas discharge. THIS is where you need the larger diameter tubes, to get more volume out of the cylinder. THIS is where you can loose power due to pumping losses on the exhuast stroke. In an ideal world, your exhuast system would be soooo effective, that by the time that pistion STARTS coming up on the exhuast stroke, your ports and headers will have scavenged all exhuast gas out of the cylinder during the duration of the exhuast pulse. If there's no sizable amount to push out, there in a low pressure area in the cylinder (also known as vacuum), almost causing a "pulling up" affect on the piston. So, your not loosing power by pushing, your gaining power by being pulled.

Hope this helped!


This is a quote from a physics site I use, just some of the research I've been up to. From the sounds of it LT's will help power from low-mid range (ie. situations like daily driving/towing), I however do not care about my power in these areas of the powerband. My intention is to take the truck to the track a few times this summer, on 20 inch general grabber UHP's and see what it can lay down, these will be the only times that the truck will be seeing the high rpms and from what I know shorties can be beneficial (maybe not as good as LT's but so marginally close that it wont matter) enough to make the $650 for coated JBA's worth it for me. Also I want to get coated headers as I intend to switch to the efan and want to try to keep the heat down a little.

Thoughts? :LOL:
 

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rtcanada - what cam are you going with btw? I didn't know crower made a 4th gen cam. Is it the same one shophemi sells b/c I think crower makes their 4th gen cam?

While L/Ts are the best choice I still figure the $$$ per hp when I buy mods and it looks like you are basically doing the same. No there aren't any dyno #s out for the JBAs but I will agree with you the $1000 difference isn't worth 10-15 hp unless you are trying to get every last hp out of your motor. I think your truck will run pretty good with the mods/tuning you are planning and the NOS (100 hp shot??).
 
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