[stgraves]

Okay so here is the situation....

I recently purchased a 05 with the 5.7 pretty clean street truck (photo added) came with 186,400 miles, with that being said I know the end is coming for this motor so I'm weighing options. better yet what are the options? on top of it all I'm looking to get a few more horses other than 345hp to keep up with the local street trucks around here. clearly the new 19's come with 395hp so we're trying to catch up with the times here.

I've been talking and wondering around the fourms and it's all mixed answers. stroker kits, cam this rebuild that blah blah blah it's never a uncertian answer and here I am !

So where do I begin ? what options are out there ?
View attachment 129740

I had a 2004 Ram 1500 4x4 Quad Cab. Mods were Comp 268 Cam, Doug Thorley Try Y headers Bee Hive Valve springs ported and polished heads, Ported

Okay so here is the situation....

I recently purchased a 05 with the 5.7 pretty clean street truck (photo added) came with 186,400 miles, with that being said I know the end is coming for this motor so I'm weighing options. better yet what are the options? on top of it all I'm looking to get a few more horses other than 345hp to keep up with the local street trucks around here. clearly the new 19's come with 395hp so we're trying to catch up with the times here.

I've been talking and wondering around the fourms and it's all mixed answers. stroker kits, cam this rebuild that blah blah blah it's never a uncertian answer and here I am !

So where do I begin ? what options are out there ?
View attachment 129740

I had a 2004 Ram 1500 4x4 Quad Cab. Comp 268 cam, Bee Hive valve springs, Doug Thorley Try Y Headers with X pipe true duels all running through twin STS Turbos. Ported and polished heads, Ross forged crank and pistons. Ported 87 mm BBK throttle body. Trans-go shift kit 1200 TCI stall converter. 3.55 gears 630 HP and 680 Ft-Lbs torque to the wheels. 21 MPG hwy 17 city. 295/70R17 Nitto Terra Grapplers. Trust me when I say This truck would move. With the stuff out now I would look up Richard Pettys Garage. That would be a good place to start now.

 

[Thunderhorse]

I’d like to start this from scratch. I daily drive my truck now so I would be starting from scratch ( bare block in the living room ) type of build. So I’ll be looking for a block what does vvt or non vtt mean ?

Variable Valve Timing, sort of like Honda's VTEC. Eagles have VVT, your Hemi does not

 

[stgraves]

Variable Valve Timing, sort of like Honda's VTEC. Eagles have VVT, your Hemi does not

VVT Variable Valve Timing. My 2004 Ram did not have it and my 2015 Ram does. My 2004 Ram got 4 more MPG than my 2015. Both trucks 4x4 Quad cabs HEMI 3.92 gears. That set up netted me 19 MPG on my 2004. Now after I put my twin STS turbos I put 3.55 gears in because there was massive wheel spin. So after the 3.55 gears went in my gas mileage jumped to 21 MPG HWY. 17 - 18 city hwy a average.

 

[Magnoom]

I’d like to start this from scratch. I daily drive my truck now so I would be starting from scratch ( bare block in the living room ) type of build. So I’ll be looking for a block what does vvt or non vtt mean ?

So you'll need either a non VVT (that's already been explained a few times lol) 5.7 (03-08, any Ram or LX) or 6.1 block.

Why not go to your local wrecking yard and get a 6.4L out of a Challenger or Charger and put it in with wiring harness and computer, then with a little tuning you've got a little over 500hp.

1. Not likely to find one of those in a pick-n-pull
2. More importantly (have to pay attention to what's posted and actually have the knowledge) as explained, a factory 6.4 is a VVT engine and his truck PCM can't run it (and you can't just stick a next gen CAN bus PCM into a PCI bus system). Even if it could, he would have to totally rearrange and custom build attachments to his accessory drive since the front of the engine is COMPLETELY different, not to mention the timing cover is thicker to have room for the VVT. To compensate for that the crank snout is different (and longer) as well as everything sticking farther out to match. For example:
03-08 accessory drive

6.4 hemi without power steering

 

[stgraves]

I had a 2004 Ram 1500 4x4 Quad Cab. Mods were Comp 268 Cam, Doug Thorley Try Y headers Bee Hive Valve springs ported and polished heads, Ported

I had a 2004 Ram 1500 4x4 Quad Cab. Comp 268 cam, Bee Hive valve springs, Doug Thorley Try Y Headers with X pipe true duels all running through twin STS Turbos. Ported and polished heads, Ross forged crank and pistons. Ported 87 mm BBK throttle body. Trans-go shift kit 1200 TCI stall converter. 3.55 gears 630 HP and 680 Ft-Lbs torque to the wheels. 21 MPG hwy 17 city. 295/70R17 Nitto Terra Grapplers. Trust me when I say This truck would move. With the stuff out now I would look up Richard Pettys Garage. That would be a good place to start now.

2013 5.7 HEMI’s and up have VVT. All it does is drop down to 4 cylinders for supposed to get better fuel economy. I’ve had both VVT and none VVT and all I can say is VVT is a joke. When it goes to 4 cylinder mode the running 4 cylinder that are running have to drag the non running cylinders plus the weight of the truck/car. On top of that. Half of the motor will wear faster than the other half do to VVT. The VVT has a split cam. When your VVT equipped HEMIs are at idle that’s why they sound funny. It’s only idling with 4 cylinders.

 

[Thunderhorse]

2013 5.7 HEMI’s and up have VVT. All it does is drop down to 4 cylinders for supposed to get better fuel economy. I’ve had both VVT and none VVT and all I can say is VVT is a joke. When it goes to 4 cylinder mode the running 4 cylinder that are running have to drag the non running cylinders plus the weight of the truck/car. On top of that. Half of the motor will wear faster than the other half do to VVT. The VVT has a split cam. When your VVT equipped HEMIs are at idle that’s why they sound funny. It’s only idling with 4 cylinders.

Not quite.

VVT is variable valve timing and refers to the ability of the engine to adjust valve timing on the fly to a certain extent via the cam phaser. All 2009 and up 5.7L Hemis have VVT. These versions of the 5.7 do not have exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) like the 2003-2008 5.7s do because NOx emissions can be controlled via valve timing.

The cylinder deactivation you are referring to is called MDS-multi displacement system. This is entirely different from VVT and is found on versions of the 5.7 in the Dodge/Chrysler/ Jeep cars and SUVs with automatic transmissions. There are two versions of the 5.7 that have VVT and not MDS-they are in the HD Rams, and the Challengers with the 6 speed manual transmission.

Furthermore, Ram 1500s have had MDS since 2006, before the 5.7 had VVT.

So:
-MDS and VVT are different
-MDS debuted in 2005 in cars and 2006 in trucks
-HD trucks have never had MDS in the 5.7 (6.4s in the HD trucks do)
-VVT debuted in 2009 in the 5.7
-There are 5.7s with MDS that do not have VVT
-There are 5.7s with VVT that don't have MDS

When 4 cylinders are deactivated (MDS is engaged), the only difference is the injectors don't fire for those cylinders, the lifters disconnect for those valves, and the spark plugs don't fire in those cylinders. The valvetrain and pistons continue to get oil and the pistons continue to reciprocate; so no, it doesn't "wear out half the engine twice as fast." I am not sure what you mean by a "split cam" but I am going to assume you didn't mean that there is a preload ramp built into the lobe profile on the MDS lobes to take out slack from the deactivated lifters as is actually the case. Lastly, MDS is disabled:
-When ERS mode is engaged to lock out certain gears
-Above 85 MPH (good luck keeping a light enough load on the engine at those speeds for it to engage anyway)
-Below 15 MPH; so again, no, trucks with MDS do not idle on 4 cylinders, they idle on 8.

 

[stgraves]

G


the conclusion has been made going the build route. is this truck capable of putting down 600-650hp rwhp or am I just living a fantasy?

650 RWHP is to easy with a 5.7 HEMI. Have fun on your build.

2009 5.7 HEMI’s and up have VVT. All it does is drop down to 4 cylinders for supposed to get better fuel economy. I’ve had both VVT and none VVT and all I can say is VVT is a joke. When it goes to 4 cylinder mode the running 4 cylinder that are running have to drag the non running cylinders plus the weight of the truck/car. On top of that. Half of the motor will wear faster than the other half do to VVT. The VVT has a split cam. When your VVT equipped HEMIs are at idle that’s why they sound funny. It’s only idling with 4 cylinders.

Not quite.

VVT is variable valve timing and refers to the ability of the engine to adjust valve timing on the fly to a certain extent via the cam phaser. All 2009 and up 5.7L Hemis have VVT. These versions of the 5.7 do not have exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) like the 2003-2008 5.7s do because NOx emissions can be controlled via valve timing.

The cylinder deactivation you are referring to is called MDS-multi displacement system. This is entirely different from VVT and is found on versions of the 5.7 in the Dodge/Chrysler/ Jeep cars and SUVs with automatic transmissions. There are two versions of the 5.7 that have VVT and not MDS-they are in the HD Rams, and the Challengers with the 6 speed manual transmission.

Furthermore, Ram 1500s have had MDS since 2006, before the 5.7 had VVT.

So:
-MDS and VVT are different
-MDS debuted in 2005 in cars and 2006 in trucks
-HD trucks have never had MDS in the 5.7 (6.4s in the HD trucks do)
-VVT debuted in 2009 in the 5.7
-There are 5.7s with MDS that do not have VVT
-There are 5.7s with VVT that don't have MDS

When 4 cylinders are deactivated (MDS is engaged), the only difference is the injectors don't fire for those cylinders, the lifters disconnect for those valves, and the spark plugs don't fire in those cylinders. The valvetrain and pistons continue to get oil and the pistons continue to reciprocate; so no, it doesn't "wear out half the engine twice as fast." I am not sure what you mean by a "split cam" but I am going to assume you didn't mean that there is a preload ramp built into the lobe profile on the MDS lobes to take out slack from the deactivated lifters as is actually the case. Lastly, MDS is disabled:
-When ERS mode is engaged to lock out certain gears
-Above 85 MPH (good luck keeping a light enough load on the engine at those speeds for it to engage anyway)
-Below 15 MPH; so again, no, trucks with MDS do not idle on 4 cylinders, they idle on 8.

Sorry but your wrong.

My

Sorry but your wrong.

My 2004, 2010, 2012 Hemi trucks did not have a split cam. My 2015 Hemi truck does. And yes it does idle on 4 cylinders. Chevy does this also. That’s why they sound funny at idle. I’m not sure about ford though.

 

[tim_jonas931]

Okay, 30 posts later again

you guys rock the more and more I read the more research I do and the more I learn

Someone PM’d me yesterday and told me Mopar just came out with their plug and play kits during sema this year. He sent me the link.

Am I missing something?


the link is below about what he sent me.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

I wouldn’t mind dropping a 6.4 into this thing if it’s plug and play for a Gen3 but once again I feel like I’m treading on the impossible

 

[Thunderhorse]

Sorry but your wrong.

Might be more believable if you explained why lol

My 2004, 2010, 2012 Hemi trucks did not have a split cam. My 2015 Hemi truck does. And yes it does idle on 4 cylinders. Chevy does this also. That’s why they sound funny at idle. I’m not sure about ford though.

If your Hemi is idling on 4 cylinders you should be getting a multi cylinder misfire code to go with the CEL on your dash.

 

[ECD3]

Okay so here is the situation....

I recently purchased a 05 with the 5.7 pretty clean street truck (photo added) came with 186,400 miles, with that being said I know the end is coming for this motor so I'm weighing options. better yet what are the options? on top of it all I'm looking to get a few more horses other than 345hp to keep up with the local street trucks around here. clearly the new 19's come with 395hp so we're trying to catch up with the times here.

I've been talking and wondering around the fourms and it's all mixed answers. stroker kits, cam this rebuild that blah blah blah it's never a uncertian answer and here I am !

So where do I begin ? what options are out there ?
View attachment 129740

Hi there. Don't worry about your engine ending. I have a 2005 Dodge Ram Daytona with 290,000 miles on it. It can still launch pretty good.
If you just want to freshen things up and get more HP then all these replies are great. What I would recommend is Replacing the gear oil in the rear end, flush the transmission if it was not done at 150K miles. Go through the wheel bearings, front hub bearings and shocks. Check the fuel lines and vent lines for dry rot and cracking. All these things started going after 150,000 miles. Your truck looks nice and well taken care of. With good maintenance you will easily get 300,000 miles out of it.

 

[Magnoom]

Not quite.

VVT is variable valve timing and refers to the ability of the engine to adjust valve timing on the fly to a certain extent via the cam phaser. All 2009 and up 5.7L Hemis have VVT. These versions of the 5.7 do not have exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) like the 2003-2008 5.7s do because NOx emissions can be controlled via valve timing.

The cylinder deactivation you are referring to is called MDS-multi displacement system. This is entirely different from VVT and is found on versions of the 5.7 in the Dodge/Chrysler/ Jeep cars and SUVs with automatic transmissions. There are two versions of the 5.7 that have VVT and not MDS-they are in the HD Rams, and the Challengers with the 6 speed manual transmission.

Furthermore, Ram 1500s have had MDS since 2006, before the 5.7 had VVT.

So:
-MDS and VVT are different
-MDS debuted in 2005 in cars and 2006 in trucks
-HD trucks have never had MDS in the 5.7 (6.4s in the HD trucks do)
-VVT debuted in 2009 in the 5.7
-There are 5.7s with MDS that do not have VVT
-There are 5.7s with VVT that don't have MDS

When 4 cylinders are deactivated (MDS is engaged), the only difference is the injectors don't fire for those cylinders, the lifters disconnect for those valves, and the spark plugs don't fire in those cylinders. The valvetrain and pistons continue to get oil and the pistons continue to reciprocate; so no, it doesn't "wear out half the engine twice as fast." I am not sure what you mean by a "split cam" but I am going to assume you didn't mean that there is a preload ramp built into the lobe profile on the MDS lobes to take out slack from the deactivated lifters as is actually the case. Lastly, MDS is disabled:
-When ERS mode is engaged to lock out certain gears
-Above 85 MPH (good luck keeping a light enough load on the engine at those speeds for it to engage anyway)
-Below 15 MPH; so again, no, trucks with MDS do not idle on 4 cylinders, they idle on 8.

All of this is absolutely correct, also all factory built 6.2's and 6.4's are VVT engines.

2013 5.7 HEMI’s and up have VVT. All it does is drop down to 4 cylinders for supposed to get better fuel economy. I’ve had both VVT and none VVT and all I can say is VVT is a joke. When it goes to 4 cylinder mode the running 4 cylinder that are running have to drag the non running cylinders plus the weight of the truck/car. On top of that. Half of the motor will wear faster than the other half do to VVT. The VVT has a split cam. When your VVT equipped HEMIs are at idle that’s why they sound funny. It’s only idling with 4 cylinders.

ALL of this is horrendously WRONG and proves you have absolutely no idea how these engines actually work. A split cam is defined as a cam that has different duration between intake and exhaust (as opposed to a single pattern cam). Variable Valve Timing (VVT) has absolutely nothing to do with shutting down cylinders like the Multi Displacement System (MDS) does. There are specific inputs like load, throttle position, speed, RPM, etc that determine whether MDS will engage; idle is not one of those times.

 

[tim_jonas931]

Well research this weekend and talking to a few guys at my local track that pretty much narrowed down my options Clean and simple.

1. 5.7 forged and boosted
2. 5.7 forged and spray
3. stroker and boost
4. stroker and spray

 

[Magnoom]

Well research this weekend and talking to a few guys at my local track that pretty much narrowed down my options Clean and simple.

1. 5.7 forged and boosted
2. 5.7 forged and spray
3. stroker and boost
4. stroker and spray

Well, you and your wallet have some discussing to do and decisions to make lol

 

[Thunderhorse]

Well research this weekend and talking to a few guys at my local track that pretty much narrowed down my options Clean and simple.

1. 5.7 forged and boosted
2. 5.7 forged and spray
3. stroker and boost
4. stroker and spray

If we're making this a poll I vote for a supercharged stroker with a forged rotator.

 

[tim_jonas931]

If we're making this a poll I vote for a supercharged stroker with a forged rotator.

MAYBE MY OPINION IS WRONG AND ILL TAKE THE HEAT IF IT IS!

The stroker and boost in my opinion is and will be more reliable.??? I won’t have to run as much boost to get to where I want it??

let me know what you guys think

 

[BobS]

MAYBE MY OPINION IS WRONG AND ILL TAKE THE HEAT IF IT IS!

The stroker and boost in my opinion is and will be more reliable.??? I won’t have to run as much boost to get to where I want it??

let me know what you guys think

Agree!! And the boost can be changed if necessary. Not inexpensive to build but done properly it should last. Even the hellcat types come with a warranty.

 

[Magnoom]

MAYBE MY OPINION IS WRONG AND ILL TAKE THE HEAT IF IT IS!

The stroker and boost in my opinion is and will be more reliable.??? I won’t have to run as much boost to get to where I want it??

let me know what you guys think

You'll need the displacement increase AND boost to get to your original power goal anyway. Building a stroker gets you a forged bottom end that'll take the abuse of higher boost pressure.
Just with a N/A stroker you're gonna need to address the transmission problem you're GOING to have...RFE can't take it.

 

[tim_jonas931]

You'll need the displacement increase AND boost to get to your original power goal anyway. Building a stroker gets you a forged bottom end that'll take the abuse of higher boost pressure.
Just with a N/A stroker you're gonna need to address the transmission problem you're GOING to have...RFE can't take it.

SO!!!!

The stroker and boost recipe?

to start I know I'll need a block, I'd like to start from scratch which means

5.7 non vvt

STUPIDEST QUESTION OF THE DAY! ====> Long block or short block 5.7?

 

[stgraves]

Might be more believable if you explained why lol



If your Hemi is idling on 4 cylinders you should be getting a multi cylinder misfire code to go with the CEL on your dash.

Because Dodge designed it that way. I don’t know why they did it. They just did. There is no trouble codes. I’m looking into a cam from Arrington now. Just doin some homework. For I will be doing the same mods as much as possible on my 2015 Ram as I did on my 2004. I’m gonna stick with the 5.7 because it can handle more boost than the 6.4. If I was gonna stay normally aspirated or a supercharger I would go 6.4. But sense I’m going twin turbo I’m sticking with my 5.7 HEMI.

 

[Magnoom]

Because Dodge designed it that way. I don’t know why they did it. They just did.

Sigh.....it doesn't idle on four cylinders. None of them do. They aren't designed that way, however if you are so insistent, put your money where your mouth is; provide documentation. I can provide documentation all day long on how VVT and MDS work. Let's see you pull some outta your ass proving what you claim
What I can tell you from personal experience is that these engines will barely run and don't idle for shit if you take four cylinders out of the equation at idle.