do you think it was the feared "Death Wobble"?

 

I think it was. That load doesn't look bad at all.

 

I bet you were over the payload. Would be interesting to see what the wood and passengers weighed.

 

:Wow1: sure making me consider getting a set of Air Lift 5000 helpers

 

What's the carrying capacity in the beds suppose to be, I was thinking with the CC it like 3100lbs.

 

I wonder if the original posters truck could have some loose bushings or hardware somewhere? Maybe a good idea to do a thorough check underneath.

 

The truck has under 25k miles on it so far. If the bushings are already worn out that would be pretty pathetic. The problem is the super soft suspension. Load yours up and give it a try, I'll bet you have the exact same issue.

 

It's beyond its capacity, not the trucks problem but the operator.

 

Gosh Dan, you are such a big help...


If that was overloaded, which by the way you can not confirm, it wasn't by much and there should be a MUCH larger safety margin than there actually is. I have had dozens of trucks overloaded WAY beyond where this one was and NEVER had an experience like that.


The point is, be VERY careful loading your Power wagon. Its true capacity is really pathetic and it becomes dangerous if you even get close. Just one more reason I am getting closer everyday to unloading this POS. Baddest truck on the road my ass...

 

They are a special purpose vehicle with load range D tires. Have you ran it a cross scales to see the true curb weight in the current configuration without any load?

Gvwr 8510
Payload as per door jam sticker 1357

"1. Payload and Max Trailer Weights are ESTIMATED values.
2. All values are shown in pounds unless otherwise stated.
3. Payload and Max Trailer Weight values are rounded to the nearest 10lb.
4. Payload = GVWR – Base Weight
5. Payload and Trailer Weight Rating are mutually exclusive.
6. GAWRs, GVWRs and GCWRs should never be exceeded.
7. Trailer Weight Rating and Tow Vehicle Trailering Weight are calculated as specified in SAE J2807.
Passenger Weight = 300 lb
Options Weight = 100 lb
Tongue weight: 10 percent of the gross trailer weight for Conventional Hitch, 15 percent of the gross trailer weight for 5th Wheel or Gooseneck hitch. Trailering Equipment Weight: 75 lb for Conventional Hitch, 70 lb for Gooseneck and 250 lb for 5th Wheel.
Payload and GAWR should never be exceeded and must account for all of the above weights, including the appropriate trailering equipment and tongue weight. Box Off Body Completion Weight = 80 lb per foot from end of cab to end of frame.
8. The maximum tongue weight for Class V (receiver hitch) is limited to 1,800 lb.
9. Maximum Capability Configuration." -notes from 2016 ram bodybuilder specs

 

The D range tires are of no consequence. I have been running D range tires on 2500 and 3500 trucks for over 20 years now without a single incident like this. The tires capacity at max inflation is 3195 lbs per tire. I was certainly well below the tires load capacity. The truck weighs almost exactly 7000 lbs and has 1500 lbs of payload. That was barely 1500 lbs, so I may have been over by my body weight. Under no circumstances should the truck go into a death spiral at 60 mph with the rated load on it.


Did you read anything else you want to share from the manual or do you have any actual experience that might be helpful because, I too, can read the stupid manual Dan.


Go ahead and load one up to its stickered weight and try driving it 70 mph on the highway, I dare you.

 

And here we can observe the problem with coil spring based suspensions.....combine that with how off road optimized the PW is with the soft springs and really articulate suspension and now you have something that will sway like mad when loaded.

I have to agree you should be able to load it WAY more before a problem comes along

 

You need to think about what you are saying here Ray. That wasn't much firewood, it certainly wasn't grossly overloaded. So you think it would be better that I haul the load 35 miles home but skip that and drive another 30 highway miles to weigh it BEFORE I just haul it home? This wood came off a mountain, nowhere near a set of truck scales. It would be idiotic to go weigh the load.


You guys are making assumptions on the false premise that you know what it weighed, or that you just somehow KNOW that must be the problem. Impressive skill I must say...


So between looking at the pic and going out to the woodpile I am guessing 22 rounds on the truck averaging 60 lbs which works out to 1320 lbs plus myself at 225 and a passenger at 170 for a grand total of 1715 lbs total bed load including passengers. That is 210 lbs over (guesstimated) the trucks rating. If 210 lbs over causes the behavior I experienced, they should have rated it much lower yet. I have had bad sway issues with smaller loads as well, loads hundreds under the rating.


Just don't buy one to haul anything with unless you fit more spring capacity. I was also surprised how easily the Bilsteins gave up. I figured they would be able to reign in the body motions better. Just more disappointment in this overhyped rig. Can't haul anything with it, can't use it off road due to electronic nannies, dangerous in the snow for the same reason. This truck definitely isn't fitting my needs. I need to haul some furniture cross country in a couple weeks after that, the concerted effort to unload this albatross begins...

 

You need to think about what you are saying here Ray. That wasn't much firewood, it certainly wasn't grossly overloaded. So you think it would be better that I haul the load 35 miles home but skip that and drive another 30 highway miles to weigh it BEFORE I just haul it home? This wood came off a mountain, nowhere near a set of truck scales. It would be idiotic to go weigh the load.


You guys are making assumptions on the false premise that you know what it weighed, or that you just somehow KNOW that must be the problem. Impressive skill I must say...


So between looking at the pic and going out to the woodpile I am guessing 22 rounds on the truck averaging 60 lbs which works out to 1320 lbs plus myself at 225 and a passenger at 170 for a grand total of 1715 lbs total bed load including passengers. That is 210 lbs over (guesstimated) the trucks rating. If 210 lbs over causes the behavior I experienced, they should have rated it much lower yet. I have had bad sway issues with smaller loads as well, loads hundreds under the rating.


Just don't buy one to haul anything with unless you fit more spring capacity. I was also surprised how easily the Bilsteins gave up. I figured they would be able to reign in the body motions better. Just more disappointment in this overhyped rig. Can't haul anything with it, can't use it off road due to electronic nannies, dangerous in the snow for the same reason. This truck definitely isn't fitting my needs. I need to haul some furniture cross country in a couple weeks after that, the concerted effort to unload this albatross begins...

They are off road valved, not intended to control the body like the on road performance variants.

 

The higher the load in the box, the more energy in the arm movement so the weight is magnified. RAM could have tested and rated the payload with the weight in the bottom of the box.

Next time you have an issue, CAT scale it so you know the starting weight anyways.

Glad you didn't get hurt.

 

90% of the weight is below the bed rails. The CAT scale is not in between the firewood and the house. I am not driving and extra 60-70 miles to use the scale when I can just haul it home.


I know the starting weight... are you even reading my posts Ray, I already mentioned that.

 

Looking at the size of those logs, I would hazard a guess that 60 per is a little on the light side. A good sized chunk that size would have a lot of water content and be quite heavy. Were you able to load each log by yourself or did it take 2 people. A 60# log would be manageable by one person, but if it took 2 people it is probably closer to 100# and at 22 logs it would throw the weight way off. If you measure the log and the type of tree, I am sure that there is a weight calculator available on the internet to give a more accurate weight, but my guess it is more than you think and with the height of the load it would have made it a lot more unstable when you pulled out to pass.

 

How on earth do you guys come up with this shit? Now you know the water content of a tree that was standing dead in a SW Colorado forest for 20 years? I cut and load all of my firewood by myself, yes I cut and loaded every last one of those myself. Having been doing this for several decades I think I have a pretty good feel for the weight of the rounds.

 

I can feel the body roll in turns with no load. The suspenision is not made for heavy loads, put air bags on it to reduce roll.

I speak from experience owning a 2016 powerwagon trim package. Coming from a 2014 2500 there is a very noticeable difference in just driving it empty.

 

opc1:

boy some of the comments here are just unbelievable, I would have taken that load without a second thought

sure makes me question the ability of my PW

 

Right? The load didn't look the least bit intimidating to me either. If it was a regular 2500 I would have had it roof high all the way back with side boards on.


I kind of meant the whole thing as a PSA. I think with air spring helpers you could at least haul what I had on safely. I remember warning the member wanting to put his atv on top of his tonneau cover... That was when I was running just bed level firewood loads.


Underestimating how quickly this can get dangerous is a mistake as well. Just be aware of what it can haul. I am having to reset my brain in this area for obvious reasons too.

 

Time for a trailer to haul firewood for the house. Gathering firewood near hunting and camping areas speed won't be an issue as your usually on gravel roads going slow anyway.


So what's the main issue here, new mandated safety mechanisms on the newer trucks, or the coiled rear springs, along with a heavy load, and attempting hwy speeds.

Can pulling a fuse disable that, or a new PCM that is unlocked?

 

I may look into air bags just for a little more assistance with the body roll with heavy loads as a little safety.

http://www.suspensionconnection.com/2580-firestone.html

I think another issue with the coil springs instead of leafs is they are more inboard. More lateral leverage to work on a load. The air bags put support further out by the bump stops, where you need the lateral stability. The rear Power Wagon axle is quite robust.

 

Air Springs

I have a FourWheel Camper on my 2015 Power Wagon, so it is overloaded. I installed Boss Air Springs. Because the drivers side of camper has more weight, I keep 20 psi on that side, and 10 psi on the passenger side. When I put the camper on it the rear went down a few inches, the air springs bring it back to stock height and work with the coil springs for a good ride. If you put too much air in the air springs, you could make it ride like a log wagon.


It controls the truck very well off road and on road. I need to remember it is a lifted truck and not to drive it like a sports car.

 

My question is, since the air bag sits in the spot of the rubber bumper and is bolted to both the frame and the axle, what happens to the air bag when you off-road with the PW and the rear axle articulates greatly? Does the airbag have enough strength to hold the weight of the side of the axle that drops in a hole? Does it need a limiting strap which would reduce the off-road capability?

EDIT: Never mind, looks like you can just get a Daystar cradle and allow full articulation.

http://daystarweb.com/productdetail.php?productID=1232

This also looks quite interesting:

http://www.supersprings.com/ProductFinder/pf.php#year=2016/make=Ram/model=2500/part=SSR-302-47

With that, no need to mess around with the air compressor.

And this:

https://www.etrailer.com/Vehicle-Suspension/Timbren/TDR2500D.html

 

I've been looking at what setup could still allow the most flex in the rear and have come to some conclusions:

1. No matter which setup, the frame cannot be connected to the axle in any fashion as with traditional airbags mounted top and bottom.
2. SuperSpring and Rubber extended bump stops will help with the load, but would get in the way and not allows the suspension to collapse as seen on this rear wheel:



3. Would a Daystar cradle be able to keep a minimum deflated (5 psi) air bag in place and not get ruined in the severe rear wheel tuck in the above photo? Really, you need the adjustable inflation properties of an air bag to make this work on a power wagon. Minimal inflation with a bottom cradle for off-roading and high pressure for towing. As far as I can see with physics is a fixed item like a SumoSpring just won't let the suspension tuck in enough, as much as I'd like to go with a install it and forget it item.

 

I am running the Airlift 5000 Bags on my PW and have no problem with articulation. I am driving an 11 that still has leaf springs, but the airbags when set up right have plenty of movement to support full stock articulation.

 

I think they ruined the old PW when they put a larger axle with soft coils in the rear. Makes no sense at all. Why increase the axle size (10.5" to now 11.5") and then put soft coils on it? Dumb! My 2010 2500 would laugh at that load of firewood, laugh it's arse off! As would this truck: 1990 F150 with load range C
tires!

Better get those airbags!

 

But then the modern PW would laugh at your off road capabilities in places like Moab. There is a trade off in everything. That said, I have never experienced anything like the OP when my PW was loaded up with a big X2 ATV or building construction materials??


Your average wood hauling pickup aint doing this:

I think they ruined the old PW when they put a larger axle with soft coils in the rear. Makes no sense at all. Why increase the axle size (10.5" to now 11.5") and then put soft coils on it? Dumb! My 2010 2500 would laugh at that load of firewood, laugh it's arse off! As would this truck: 1990 F150 with load range C
tires!

Better get those airbags!

 

In addition to the Firestone air bag kit with the Daystar cups, I've been entertaining this:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fip-8611

Basically, I could set this up so that the single middle bolt screws into a welded bolt in the bracket so I can simply screw on and off the bumper at will. This would allow normal truck operation when I want it, and the support for hauling larger loads when I want it.

Just trying to determine what is less of a pain, getting out the air compressor and inflating/deflating air bags or reaching around the back of the wheel to screw on and unscrew the urethane bumpers.

I still think the air bags at high PSI may provide more stability than a slightly compressed urethane bumper, but is more complex and more parts to wear/fail.

 

I thought the idea behind the Power Wagon was that it could do both, haul your load and go off road better than any full size truck has a right too. I think up until a few years ago they were mostly that. If off road was my priority I wouldn't use the PW, it is way to big and heavy. Factor in the intrusive electronics and it is pretty compromised off road. Jeep Rubicon, Mercedes G-Class, the right Toyota Land Cruiser are all better off road choices bone stock. If modifying your rig is your bag you can build a Prius into a better off roader with a PW budget.


Obviously the whole thread started when I found out it can't handle more than half a load of firewood. So it isn't any good at hauling like a truck should be able to haul. Factor in the electronic nannies in the winter that make the truck just plain dangerous and I am done. No point in trying to modify it. If it had a manual trans maybe but, I hate the automatic, hate hate hate it. I am going to sell it. One last road trip this summer then it goes on the block.

 

If you like the idea of the PW, have you thought of getting one a few years older? I have an '11, leaf springs and very few electric nannies (thank god!). Seems the rear coils have been the biggest detractor to the truck. I can easily carry the load of firewood you described with no issues, and never any issues winter driving. I did add airbags, not because of the hauling capacity, more so I find myself towing 12k semi regularly and the tongue weight can climb up to 2500 pretty easily.

 

Ya a simple $300 air bag kit would solve virtually all of the PW's load/towing issues. People have to understand you can't put massive hard to compress springs back there and expect it to be off-road capable.

I honestly think some people are naive if they thought a PW would off-road just as well as a Rubicon Wrangler that weighs 3K pounds less and is basically a one-trick pony. The wrangler is horrid on the highway. It's honestly an achievement for a truck as large as it to off-road as well as it does, with a great interior, quiet, good highway manners and decent fuel economy.

 

Well it was able to haul a lot more before the suspension redesign. Lots of older PW owners will testify to that. How much did they gain by making the springs that soft? They also reduced articulation over the leaf spring models. Seems like the whole thing took the truck a couple of steps backwards. Their marketing would lead you to believe the opposite is true.


Who ever said it was expected to be a Rubicon? Not me. I owned a new '07 Rubi Unlimited and found to be fine on the highway, even with a soft top. That rig went on lots of long trips with no problem.


So for me the promise was there... the delivery not so much. I understand that most people who buy these trucks have MUCH lower expectations for them than I must have.

 

Timbren and E rated tires if you need better payload. What I did and have zero issues hauling a ton of feed all the time.

 

Agreed! I've used Timbren rubber bump stops on my Nissan Xterra and it changed the hauling capabilities completely around to the good. Before the bump stops the Xterra's front end would point to the sky with an UNloaded 3,000lb trailer no lie! I would show U but I traded the Xterra for the 2500. Check out Timbren!