DODGE RAM FORUM banner
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I didn't see anything when I searched for this, but here soon I'm gonna be supercharging my Ram, with the Procharger DSC1 kit. It's a 2015 Ram 1500 Sport 4x4 with the 3.92 rear end, and a 5.7 Hemi with about 56000 miles on it. I plan on switching out the u-joints with something stronger and possibly putting a better torque converter in for durability, but that hasn't been done yet.

My question is, has anyone on here with a supercharged Ram taken their trucks on long trips, or have any advice on the matter? I plan on doing a 2400 mile round trip with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
332 Posts
I haven’t driven my truck on a long trip yet but I don’t even know my boat is back there anymore! I was surprised to get better fuel economy after the install. Approximately 18mpg in town with a light foot.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
34,751 Posts
You'd certainly have no issue passing people lol.

FWIW Southern Hotrod in the NOLA area builds beefed up 8HP70s and 8HP90s
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
I didn't see anything when I searched for this, but here soon I'm gonna be supercharging my Ram, with the Procharger DSC1 kit. It's a 2015 Ram 1500 Sport 4x4 with the 3.92 rear end, ana 5.7 Hemi with about 56000 miles on it. I plan on switching out the u-joints with something stronger and possibly putting a better torque converter in for durability, but that hasn't been done yet.

My question is, has anyone on here with a supercharged Ram taken their trucks on long trips, or have any advice on the matter? I plan on doing a 2400 mile round trip with it.
How’d it go? I’m blown on a RIPP kit and have about 3100 miles to drive in the coming weeks. TIA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
How’d it go? I’m blown on a RIPP kit and have approx. 3100 miles that need covered in the next three weeks. TIA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
332 Posts
I recently took the boat up to Wilderness state park near Mackinaw City for five days. It's a little over 500 miles round trip. I reset my fuel mileage tracker when I left. I can usually get over 23 mpg on the highway not pulling anything but I checked when I got home and it was down to 13.5. Don't know if that is good or bad because I haven't bothered to check the weight of the boat. Plus there was a few hundred pounds of gear in the bed. I think I'd rather have the 3.92 gears now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
335 Posts
I dont understand.

These trucks haul ass stock. Why procharge it, and why do it without a tuner.

Your torque converter and u joints are least of your worries.

The ECM operates using a startling amount of assumptions, and any deviation requires a recalibration that can only be triggered with the wiTECH scanner. You cant even adjust the valves without this being done.

On top of that, this truck does not have the sensors required to properly manage forced induction. Go to a dealership and look a hellcat. They have mass airflow sensors (or used to - they went back to specially designed IAT sensors). Our trucks have an IAT and MAP sensor that work well for naturally aspirated setups, but not with forced induction.

No one on this forum or in real life runs a super/turbo setup on a stock engine without external tuning and does not have problems. If they claim they do, they're lying.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,834 Posts
I dont understand.

These trucks haul ass stock. Why procharge it, and why do it without a tuner.

Your torque converter and u joints are least of your worries.

The ECM operates using a startling amount of assumptions, and any deviation requires a recalibration that can only be triggered with the wiTECH scanner. You cant even adjust the valves without this being done.

On top of that, this truck does not have the sensors required to properly manage forced induction. Go to a dealership and look a hellcat. They have mass airflow sensors (or used to - they went back to specially designed IAT sensors). Our trucks have an IAT and MAP sensor that work well for naturally aspirated setups, but not with forced induction.

No one on this forum or in real life runs a super/turbo setup on a stock engine without external tuning and does not have problems. If they claim they do, they're lying.
And that's where you're wrong!

It's not nearly as complicated as you are trying to make it sound to add in forced induction, yes a MAF is nice but not needed if you use a true A/F lamba sensor to remap the entire fuel map and hand adjust the spark tables. There is no real problem at all with tuning these, the main issue is actually the 6 speed being useless stock and the 8 speed while good is not quite strong enough unless you use a hellcat unit.

The u joints are totally fine, if they can hold the force of 4wd-low then they can and will take even twice the power in hi range vs stock. Converter is a good idea, my dad's is already starting to shudder a little and it's only at 13000 miles and is like that purely due to agressive driving.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
34,751 Posts
Any time you add a cam or FI you really need a custom tune done at the time of install.

There are A LOT of guys running takeout 5.7s on old A bodies and other 50s-70s Mopars though, very often with FI setups
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,844 Posts
I dont understand.

These trucks haul ass stock. Why procharge it, and why do it without a tuner.

Your torque converter and u joints are least of your worries.

The ECM operates using a startling amount of assumptions, and any deviation requires a recalibration that can only be triggered with the wiTECH scanner. You cant even adjust the valves without this being done.

On top of that, this truck does not have the sensors required to properly manage forced induction. Go to a dealership and look a hellcat. They have mass airflow sensors (or used to - they went back to specially designed IAT sensors). Our trucks have an IAT and MAP sensor that work well for naturally aspirated setups, but not with forced induction.

No one on this forum or in real life runs a super/turbo setup on a stock engine without external tuning and does not have problems. If they claim they do, they're lying.
Because too much is just enough.
Where do you get the idea that ANYONE is trying to run FI without it being retuned? No you do not need Witech to retune the PCM; people do it all the time. Worst case scenario an unlocked PCM has to be swapped in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
335 Posts
Wow just saw this, was slammed at work today.

First, I'll be constructive:

YES of COURSE tuning can be done without a MAF - but the setup our trucks have is not ideal

Running without a MAF requires alot of assumptions to be made by the ECM. With very careful tuning this can work - and work well even - but once something upsets the balance (failing injector, worn plugs, bad gas, unexpected heavy loads and high temperatures and/or altitudes, etc), the entire house of cards fall down. I talk about it here: http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=248543

I know you guys here don't like reading anything longer than a twitter post, so here I'll post the quote:
Chrysler instead uses intake air temperature and a manifold air pressure to calculate approximate altitude, and references a table to calculate density, then makes finer adjustments based off temperature. It calculates a baseline on initial start and immediately following a WOT event.

Again, under normal or light-ish loads, the system works (and actually works very well). However, in cases like this where the baseline is calculated at more-or-less sea level, and the vehicle is ascending a very steep hill under a very heavy load, the system again falls on its face. Because they never let off the gas during the test, the PCM doesn’t calculate a new baseline altidude, and therefore doesn’t realize its going up a very steep hill. Instead it only sees a sudden loss of air density, and therefore makes an inapproprate change to ignition timing, retarding it even further.
Ok thats out of the way. Now ill show my teeth :)


I feel like I'm arguing with rich dads that simply hire people like me to build their top-trim whatevers.
They don't use a truck to tow or haul stuff. They just want a truck to tailgate smaller cars on their way to their comfortable government job.

Or they just slap a bolt on, and expect people like me to deal with the long term consequences. Either one is quite aggravating. It makes me not want to finish the bible I'm working on, you people don't deserve such knowledge.

For my next trick I will disembowel your flawed arguments using only previous quotes.

You said:
yes a MAF is nice but not needed if you use a true A/F lamba sensor to remap the entire fuel map and hand adjust the spark tables
I said:
No one on this forum or in real life runs a super/turbo setup on a stock engine without external tuning and does not have problems.
and why do it without a tuner.
and any deviation requires a recalibration that can only be triggered with the wiTECH scanner. You cant even adjust the valves without this being done.
You said:
the main issue is actually the 6 speed being useless stock
my dad's is already starting to shudder a little and it's only at 13000 miles
I said:
... I dont even need to say anything. It takes a very special moron to kill a truck transmission in 13k miles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,834 Posts
Wow just saw this, was slammed at work today.

First, I'll be constructive:

YES of COURSE tuning can be done without a MAF - but the setup our trucks have is not ideal

Running without a MAF requires alot of assumptions to be made by the ECM. With very careful tuning this can work - and work well even - but once something upsets the balance (failing injector, worn plugs, bad gas, unexpected heavy loads and high temperatures and/or altitudes, etc), the entire house of cards fall down. I talk about it here: http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=248543

I know you guys here don't like reading anything longer than a twitter post, so here I'll post the quote:

Ok thats out of the way. Now ill show my teeth :)


I feel like I'm arguing with rich dads that simply hire people like me to build their top-trim whatevers.
They don't use a truck to tow or haul stuff. They just want a truck to tailgate smaller cars on their way to their comfortable government job.

Or they just slap a bolt on, and expect people like me to deal with the long term consequences. Either one is quite aggravating. It makes me not want to finish the bible I'm working on, you people don't deserve such knowledge.

For my next trick I will disembowel your flawed arguments using only previous quotes.

You said:
I said:
You said:
I said:
... I dont even need to say anything. It takes a very special moron to kill a truck transmission in 13k miles.
For my next trick I will totally destroy your lack of knowledge of open loop tuning and 3 bar MAP sensors and how even "normal" handheld tuners like the diablo work.

You are neglecting to realize that when in open loop (WOT or when the O2 sensors are cold) the truck WILL NOT read off its sensors and instead defaults to a static map for spark advance and fuel based almost entirely off RPM. This value is LOCKED in a tuned vehlice and the reason you tuned it in the first place is so that the WOT map is accurate for whatever the truck now flows, when under forced induction the 3-bar map sensor is able to fully see the intake pressure and assuming you flowed your heads at various PSI of boost even the inital map will be fairly well calibrated to fuel and spark advance the engine quite accurately. The IAT sensor is good enough once the map is adjusted for the actual flow numbers and if you are intercooled like you shuld always be there won't be sudden spikes the system won't account for.

The PCM doesn't have to assume ANYTHING without a MAF like you seem to think if YOU THE OWNER/BULDER flowed the heads and you know exactly what they flow at a given pressure. The MAP values can be easily adjusted and the IAT sensor takes care of air density changes due to temp swings easily since the known flow values are fixed and the only variable changed is the charge temp. The ECU can fully see that change and slightly dial back fuel and spark if the charge is overly hot or increase them if overly cold since the flow is known and already in the tables.

It is not as nearly as much guesswork as you make it seem after the vehlice is tuned by hand with a wideband since it allows the tuner to re-create a full spark and fuel map perfectly in sync with the actual airflow through the engine. I mean seriously, the whole point of custom tuning after modification is because the factory tables are an imprecise blanket program to begin with. Sure a MAF is nice and accurate but has many other issues you can totally avoid with a MAP system and the MAF setups start to run into isssues of their own when not stock. The most prominent of such being the inability to flow and measure air volume after it exceed a certain amount, a 3 bar MAP system doesn't care how much is flowing into the intake side since it is only measuring the psi inside the intake and thus able to know how much air is making it to the cylinders. Again since you are custom tuning it and have already flowed the heads so you are very close to he actual flow numbers the wideband allows you to just slightly adjust fuel ratios and then that IAT sensor adjusts the flow value for heat. All that goes out the window when you floor it anyway since the system just reads RPM and since pedal position is assumed 100% it operates off a static fuel map and semi-static spark map if you have knock sensors.

That last part is the reason tuning is so critical since the engine will NOT adjust what it does and needs to have tables that are correctly mapped to read from that are custom made for that particular setup. You get slight leeway with the knock sensors if you have too much timing but again that should have been tuned custom when you did everything else. The MAF setup is actually far more dangerous since if you have any sort of leak after the sensor you will run it lean, a MAP can compensate for something unexpected like a PCV hose failing, a MAF car will run lean and damage itself. I have personally seen many a BMW have engine issues and severe lean issues from a minor PCV hose crack, on the other hand I have also seen my engine (MAP equipped) not care when I pulled the PCV hose off entirely since it simply added in a little more fuel to compensate without any issues at part throttle and at WOT it simply reverted to the custom map and was not detectably lean on my wideband that reads to .00 A/F or lambda.


Oh yeah, by the way since you don't seem to know definitions EXTERNAL TUNING means a standalone computer like a holly or haltech. Not a retune of the stock PCM. You also would be an idiot to think we are simply attaching forced induction hardware and thinking the stock PCM and program can somehow compinsate for that. Oh and in that absurd situation a MAF system would be less reliable than a MAP one anyway........




YOU are be person who is makeing many assumptions about the members here and also detecting insulting remarks toward them. There are many very knowlegable people here who have actually built up their personal vehlices and have dealt with and solved these issues you seem to think are insurmountable.

Also did you even ever stop to think my dad is driving the truck without care since he planned to supercharge it and swap the converter anyway? No everyone gives a damn if they have other plans for a vehlice that involves pushing it past stock anyway. Most any stock vehicle doesn't take kindly to having its TC off and torque management removed and constantly 4wd launched from stall or slammed WOT when in top gear and forced to downshift. Doesn't really matter though when the plan once it breaks is a built trans and engine anyway.......lastly that "very special moron" has a Doctorate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
335 Posts
Lol feel better?

I come from pirate4x4, so your little crybaby storm means shit to me. Change your diaper, wipe your eyes (wash your hands first :p) then reread the OP's question.

Can you reliably run a procharger on a stock engine with no tune

If you got a personal issue with me, PM me. Don't litter the thread through copy/pasting paragraphs from some tuning 101 book from Barns and Noble.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,264 Posts
:popc1:

...If only I understood the technical aspects of this conversation.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
34,751 Posts
Friendly reminder: this is a place to discuss things, its OK to disagree and expected that people will from time to time, but ad hominems are uncalled for and make your argument look weak anyway. If members are unable to politely disagree and this devolves to name calling the thread will get locked and sent to the abyss.

That's not me, that's the rules we all agreed to when we joined.

Can you reliably run a procharger on a stock engine with no tune
Why would we even ask that question? Who TF installs a supercharger (or cam, crate engine, or turbo setup) on ANY engine without tuning?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
335 Posts
here soon I'm gonna be supercharging my Ram, with the Procharger DSC1 kit. It's a 2015 Ram 1500 Sport 4x4 with the 3.92 rear end, and a 5.7 Hemi with about 56000 miles on it. My question is, has anyone on here with a supercharged Ram taken their trucks on long trips, or have any advice on the matter? I plan on doing a 2400 mile round trip with it.
Who TF installs a supercharger (or cam, crate engine, or turbo setup) on ANY engine without tuning?
*drops mic*
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
34,751 Posts
*drops mic*
Again, where did he say he wasn't getting it tuned? Its pretty well implied that you will when you say you're going to supercharge something.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,834 Posts
Friendly reminder: this is a place to discuss things, its OK to disagree and expected that people will from time to time, but ad hominems are uncalled for and make your argument look weak anyway. If members are unable to politely disagree and this devolves to name calling the thread will get locked and sent to the abyss.

That's not me, that's the rules we all agreed to when we joined.



Why would we even ask that question? Who TF installs a supercharger (or cam, crate engine, or turbo setup) on ANY engine without tuning?
He has devolved to attacking me via the PM system at this point. Basiclly calling me a stupid kid who should "shut up and go to bed" being that I'm clearly a keyboard warrior who is too young to know anything. I told him to come refute me in this thread instead of throwing unsubstantiated insults but he continues.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
335 Posts
Again, where did he say he wasn't getting it tuned?
These kits have all this marketing garbage on them that make the uneducated buyer assume its a literal bolt on. At this point we can only wait for OP to respond to clarify.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,834 Posts
These kits have all this marketing garbage on them that make the uneducated buyer assume its a literal bolt on. At this point we can only wait for OP to respond to clarify.
https://www.teambeefcakeracing.com/...MIhtCb26XN2wIVC7XACh12xwcwEAQYASABEgIGPfD_BwE

Where in this kit does it say it doesn't need tuning? I mean correct me if I'm wrong but it even goes so far as to say you need to buy higher capacity injectors and to get a custom tune made...........odd considering what you keep insisting.....
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top