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Just jumping in to this thread to add my 2013 Ram 1500 5.7L VVT/MDS 4WD to the list of trucks experiencing Lifter/Cam Failure.

234 xxx KM (146k miles).
Truck showing about 140 hours idle time and somewhere over 4k hours drive time, but I know thats wrong as I recall having 100+ hours idle time when the truck was only a year or two old. I haven't had it running enough yet to prove whether it has stopped recording idle hours.
Failed lifters were intake on 6 and exhaust on 4. Yes, both MDS cylinders but as we know any can fail.
I have always used 5w-20 synthetic for the life of the truck, but a few oil changes were probably a little long in the tooth, but most in the 5-10k KM range for changes.

Maybe another interesting/related fact is that i have an 8 speed trans, and am not heavy on the gas regularly, these factors perhaps l





Sorry to hear C hris. Any idea what your cold and warm idle speed was running?
 

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Just jumping in to this thread 2013

well i think 150k miles is fair game i think(seems nowdays Ford/Chevy/Dodge anything over 100k has some form of risk)

And the idle issue is about poor maintenance, idling is extreme duty.

Sounds like that wasn't your issue but your in the trouble "years". Did you have any codes or issue before hand? No misfires? MDS getting "wonky" can cause this.

I have heard some can feel it "fail" when towing with high mileage hemi's on highway(when reactivating). Ive heard more than once they felt a "shudder" when accelerating and then later the cam fails.

This goes back to the Hot Rod article on how MDS can be one reason for the failure. MDS activation and deactivation is a ballet of sh*t and it can go wrong.


My chevy just sh*t the bed at 140k... my friends blew out the oil pickup ring at high way speed and went kablooey at similar mileage. (he is clueless old guy though, didnt realize running around at 20 was not normal for the last month)

I doubt it was anything to do with Trans


FROM HOT ROD ARTICLE: What Is Hemi MDS? (hotrod.com)

Getting cylinder deactivation to happen from a practical standpoint takes some pretty precise engineering. Within the lube circuit of the Hemi's hydraulic roller lifters are four control valve solenoids that when energized by the ECM through the harness divert pressurized oil to a locking pin in the lifter. When this pin is pushed into the body of the lifter, the roller on the lifter can still follow the cam profile, but the motion is no longer translated to the plungerthe part of the lifter that engages the pushrod. When the ECM de-energizes the solenoid, the spring-loaded pin engages with the plunger and all the parts of the lifter have the same motion again.
A few things can happen that can cause this mechanism to break down, the most common of which is oil contamination. When small pieces of dirt block the lube circuit, the lifter may not be able to change state, or the change may happen slower, or only partially. A common scenario with the MDS system in Hemis is where the ECM believes the lifter is engaged at higher rpm when it is not. Here, the internal pin that locks the lifter body to the plunger is still disengaged when the engine rpm goes up. In this failure mode, the roller follows the cam lobe, until it reaches an engine speed where it can't, and the roller crashes repeatedly on the lobe. Eventually, the lifter, roller, needle bearings, and the lobe surface become damaged to the point of failure.
 

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It used to be expected that, with reasonable use and proper maintenance, almost any vehicle could expect to see pretty close to 200k miles... with the advances of engineering and technology why is it that energy efficiency seems to have gone up at what appears to be the sacrifice of service life?

Maybe my suppositions are wrong but I swear 200k was a legitimate expectation at one point, and now? My truck suddenly decides to eat a cam lobe at 103k? Seems a whole lot like planned obsolescence at this point... wtf.
 

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Yeah complexity is introduced for the sake of mileage and emissions. If we were all running around with 1970's vehicles, Opec would love it and we would be living like China? Pollution is real, and i know plenty who have over 200k on their Hemi's and LS engines. Although between my hemi and my LS... My LS just failed at 113k... MDS/AFM and the rollers is the weak link in modern engines with high hp.

The valve train lives on these trucks seem to be max 200-250k life if your lucky. Honestly though the hemi is a cheap engine, i can buy a rebuilt one for like 2000$ spend a weekend swapping it in. Hemi's are inexpensive engines honestly, LS's also. In the 2011-2014 years i would say the LS's have the edge in quality(I think the bankruptcy really hurt the supply chain, although I would assume lifters were always made by Melling out of Germany.. maybe Chrysler defaulted on Melling?) Also making it to 100k says wear on the needle bearings and that points to bad oil... potential loss of lubrication, maybe sludge or a particulate got in the roller... a TINY particle can lock up a lifter and your done, roller lifters are very fragile.

Sad reality but true, no engine is perfect of course. What year was yours?
 

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Yeah, I just don't buy the bad oil bad maintenance excuse. Besides being a stupidly convenient cop out, they say "only" about 5% of these engines end up with this failure. We must ask ourselves "What's the converse of that argument?" If we really believe it to be maintenance and oil, and it only happens to 5% of engines then that means 95% of the millions of vehicles with hemi's out there are being maintained perfectly... and that's total BS. Pick any average owner out of a line up and have them find the dipstick... they can't even pop the hood. Shit, just the people that think 5w-20 is too thin and are using 5w-30 instead should account for a significant percentage, let alone the tons of people that don't perform their oil changes at the right time, if at all. If most of the engines are getting away with being poorly maintained, as we basically have to assume knowing that people are basically vehicularly retarded, the remaining fault must be with parts, assembly, or some unknown factor.

I don't really care what's actually at fault, I just want to know wtf it is so I can be confident I'm actually addressing the issue and not just putting new parts on a broken system that will ultimately fail again.

Again, if it was poor maintenance these rigs would have other engine problems, this wouldn't be by far and above the stand out issue. When tearing into them you'd see sludge and buildup... but every video tear down I've seen they look like well maintained vehicles with a cam and lifter that suddenly decided to self destruct. Some of the vehicles this issue has happened to didn't even have 30k miles on them... I don't care if that vehicle still had factory oil in it, that is way too soon to be eating a lifter. The maintenance excuse is bs.
 

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well if you don't think maintenance matters I dont know what to say... and a roller lifter is the most critical point in maintenance(this is the point), this is happening on primarily 2009-2014 cars... they are older cars, if they happen at very low miles its obviously a manufacturing defect...

Manufacturing defects are maybe just a little too much tolerance on the needle bearings.. they wear faster and lock up.

Any tiny particle going through the engine can lock up a roller lifter... a grain of sand can trash your engine... smaller than a grain of sand...

Add MDS... high mileage and poor maintenance ...

This is more about a 2% failure on 2009-2015 engines... but plenty are running to 200-250k... Most hemi owners i know are oblivious(until they get on youtube and lose their shit, those F'ers are like OMG hemis are crap for hits and money because they know your going to click on it)...

This isn't about idle(that is poor maintenance and severe duty-lack of lubrication because of heat/idle/broken down oil)... but many die are not idling their cars...

But the fix is a new cam and lifters and your good for another 200-250k... so that points to a quality issue, if the next set goes 200k? its not a design issue... If you want to be safe(and you have a 2009-2014- maybe 15), pop it open replace with 2015(hellcat lifters) and refesh up with new pushrods, (valve seats(if 2003-2008)), valve seals, springs, lap the valves, clean it up and drive it for 200-250k...
 

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I would like to join this lawsuit. I’m quit disappointed in my 2014 Ram. Cam and lifters destroyed, $4,000 repair. I still have 3 years of paying 500 month.
How many miles? You realize there will be no class action lawsuit... its like a 2-3% failure rate on 2010-2014 trucks and they are normally out of warranty.

How do you owe that much on a 9 year old truck? I guess at 4k...that engine was cheap...enjoy a couple more years of driving... 4 months more payments shouldnt be a big deal..
 

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Read through this entire thread. I can't believe there hasn't been a recall for this yet.

I used my Trinity to bump the idle up to 650 because it would dip down to 470 while sitting at a stoplight. My hot idle oil pressure went from around 30psi to around 40psi which is quite a difference for ~150rpms. I really think this has to do with lack of lubrication to the top end during low RPM idle.

I had the a hot idle tick around 4000 miles that my dealer told me 3 times was "normal Hemi noise". I am currently at 35000 and running Redline 5w30 and my Hemi is whisper quiet FWIW
I have a 2006 Chrysler 300c 5.7
I just had it rebuilt and replace with NON MDS lifters and plugs for solenoids. It’s throwing cylinder 1,4,6,7 codes and idle is at 1500 idling rough.. any help??
 

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Hi all-

Recently purchased a 2013 Ram 2500 with 52k miles.

No warranty coverage due to age and since I’m not the original owner.

I’ve only had the truck a few weeks and it started throwing a cylinder 7 misfire code. I cleared the code on three separate occasions and each time the code would reappear about a week later and only right after a cold start (it seems to also have a bit of a delayed crank but not sure if that’s normal). No strange noise or tick is present that I can tell.

Replaced coil and spark plug and same thing occurred. I took it in to the dealership and they will need to tear down the engine to see if the cam/lifters have failed which is $450 in itself. They said they went through all of the troubleshooting steps, compression, etc. before making this conclusion.

Are there any other potential factors I could be missing before agreeing to move forward? I’m damn sure not going to attempt this myself so want to have an absolutely informed decision before moving forward with such an expensive repair. I only question it because there is no noise and code only appears on cold start which makes me think it could be something else. Again though, I’m new to this engine and issue so I really have no idea.
 

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New here, just got my 2012 1500 5.7 back from the dealer with a $4500 quote for cam and lifters. 135k miles. No issues until a violent vibration started last weekend. P0305, so replaced plugs, coil, and injector on #5 before giving up and taking it to a shop. The guy said he won't touch it and it needed to go to the dealership. Gonna call around, but plan to sell it right after I fix it. Don't want to risk it happening again, and don't want to miss out on this used truck market. I can wait six months or so before getting another truck so why not. Last hemi (and maybe last dodge) I buy.
 

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Quick update on mine.. turned out to be a bad fuel injector. The dealer wanted to go in and tear the engine apart for several hundred dollars. I declined and decided to check it out myself. Swapped the injector on the bad cylinder, I suggest trying it.. wasn’t too difficult.
 

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Quick update on mine.. turned out to be a bad fuel injector. The dealer wanted to go in and tear the engine apart for several hundred dollars. I declined and decided to check it out myself. Swapped the injector on the bad cylinder, I suggest trying it.. wasn’t too difficult.
How did it run before you replaced the injector?or did it just shutdown?
 

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2009 Ram 1500 Sport Crew Cab 4X4. Detonator Yellow (PYB), 345ci Hemi V8, 545RFE trans.
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Well, here we go. I just dropped my 2009 banana Ram off at the dealership. They are looking into my random P0305 code and misfire issue. I experienced an engine vibration/lack of acceleration and CEL when I was getting on the interstate a couple of weeks ago. Stepped on the gas and the banana Ram fell right on its face where its always been a strong performer. Since that day I've been experiencing the typical issues many have discussed here when the cam/lifters start to fail. Stumbling under acceleration, a bit of a rough idle and random CEL. At the time I just assumed my baby was ready for a new set of plugs. I'm just under 129K currently and the last time they were changed was at 75K. I had a new set of plugs in the garage and ready to go since I had planned on changing them at 125K...
I changed plugs last week (checked the gaps and torqued them all properly). The old plugs actually looked really good with no signs or issues with any cylinder in particular. Since the old plugs looked good I decided to swap coils around just in case a coil was the problem. I greased up the coil boots with a good dielectric, checked coil wiring and connectors and put it all back together.
The banana Ram fired right up and idled smooth. I took her around the block an she drove well and felt as good as ever. Looked like the new plugs did the trick... right?
Wrong...the next morning I went to the Post Office across town and while driving I stepped into the throttle a bit and wham... engine stumbles, misfire (P0305) and CEL comes on again... I feather the throttle and it recovers and goes back to normal. Crazy thing is that it will drive nice and smooth and even cruise at highway speeds as long as you don't step on the gas too much. :(
I would love to hear that its only a fuel injector but I'm not confident that's going to be the problem.
Waiting on what the dealer has to say now...
 

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How long have been getting misfire code, how did the dealer diagnose a need for a complete engine replacement, and how long since last oil change and filter? The debri does not get into pressurized bearings unless the filter plugs. I have just gone through the same cam failure as you. As soon as the misfire code came up, I went through the procedure to isolate the problem by changing coil pack positions with no difference found. Removed valve cover and noted push rod on #5 exhaust valve not moving very much. Next removed oil filter and checked for metal....lots! Began tear down and found cam lobe at 5 exhaust rounded off as seen in many of these threads. I did my own repair by installing new cam and aftermarket lifters for MDS engines as well as a new oil pump and timing chain set, gasket set and head bolts. My jobber cost here in Canada was $2561 CDN but that also included a starter and exhaust manifold bolts plus exhaust shields.
hey where did you buy the parts from in canada? I have a 2017 ram 1500 and i have the same issues i want to buy all the parts then take to the mechanic. Also if you could send a list of parts that would be cool if not just store thanks
 
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