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Do wind turbines kill birds?
Yes.
Do they kill birds on a scale that is so significant that there is a danger of unbalancing bird populations?
No. And to get a sense of scale, domestic cats kill many thousands of times more birds just in the US than all the wind turbines in the entire world.

It's not the one thing- it's that we additionally put something up causing death.

Do some birds, often water birds, mistake a field of solar panels for surface water and try to land on it?
Yes, sometimes.
Just like birds occasionally mistake the reflection of the sky in our house windows for the actual sky and fly full throttle into them.
We find probably a dozen or so dead birds annually (we have big south-facing wiindows for solar gain). Urban skyscrapers kill thousands of birds for the same reason.
Again, scale matters, and scale is not something that matters much to the people who pay to put out pseudo-scientific stories with hysterical headlines about how "Wind Turbines and Solar Panels are Killing All the Birds".
They're not, nor do alternative energy sources kill nearly as much wildlife as the fossil fuels extraction and distribution industry.

Same here- we additionally putting something up, adding to the dangers already there. with questionable success.

That's a design feature. It allows a certain percentage of turbines to be offline without reducing overall output to the distribution grid. Without that redundancy it would not be possible to predict available output. All power generation systems, including coal, gas and nuclear, have built-in redundancy for that reason, and the distribution networks from power plants of all kinds are often sized in such a way that they will accommodate downstream demand but not full-throttle generation capacity.
That this feature would be misrepresented to serve as an argument against wind power is absurd, but some publications and "news" outlets are doing it, and lots of people end up believing it.

In Germany, they ordered thousands of Windturbines at Siemens. They now found out, after they built some thousands, that the energy cannot be transported to the industry- areas, where it's actually needed. Also, the power output lacks far behind of the expected- besides they found out, that some nature-protected areas, where they put those turbines, look like crap and people don't go there anymore to visit because of it. So the German government went to Siemens and wanted to cancel the contract, not building new turbines- Siemens laughed at them and said- you ordered, and you get it. and the taxpayer has to pay for it. With other words, they will build thousands of more completely useless turbines and put them into the nice landscape, just because. And the greenhouse party- who initiated it, is now turning around and blaming all others for it. At the same time, they shut all Nuclear Power Plants down and built Gas-powered Plants. Unfortunately, they have no gas for the gas powered plants and have to buy it- from Russia. That's where the Nordstrom Pipeline comes in, as the existing pipelines from Russia cannot supply the demand and Germany refuses to buy the gas from somewhere else for some stupid reasons and because of sanctions of the countries capable of delivering.
With this, the carbon footprint went sky high, while everywhere else it went down. Germany is now so energy dependent like never before, Power comes mainly from nuclear plants at the border all around, which were specifically built there, to be able to sell power to Germany- France, Swiss, Austria, Slovakia, Poland, even Netherlands operating nuclear power plants near the border and selling power. With other words, The German Greenhouse idea is built on dependence of others- and the more they force it, the more they depend on world wide politics. If Russia is ever under sanctions and they can't sell oil and gas, like Iran, then the lights go out in good old Germany. The problem is not the technology- the problem is- and there we're at the last point- Walldorf- school graduates, with A+ in dancing and clapping their names in the snow are in charged and have no idea, what they're talking about.


LOL
Right, because the only people who are advocating for alternative energy, including wind and solar, are politicians who for some reason trigger your hostility.
For heaven's sake, the push for alternative energy has been advancing steadily since before the young progressive political flamethrowers who are living rent-free in your head were even born, and that push has been coming from science and economics, with most of the opposition coming from politics anyway.

And I hated it every since it came up in the 70's. I'm pro nuclear power and absolutely anti landscape-raid.
 

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And I hated it every since it came up in the 70's. I'm pro nuclear power and absolutely anti landscape-raid.
Well OK, but nuclear power, at least nuclear fission power, is off the table for what are, ultimately, the overwhelming economic and safety reasons already discussed.
So it's not coming back no matter how strongly you support it.

Those plants still in operation are getting older and older and thus less and less reliable and more and more potentially dangerous. Decommissioning them safely, and sequestering the waste, is going to be staggeringly expensive, but nowhere near as expensive as doing nothing and ending up with an inevitable catastrophe.
Because make no mistake, that's absolutely where doing nothing will take us.
Those plants cannot be expected to run forever. No matter how much ongoing maintenance is undertaken, eventually all human-built devices wear out and cannot be repaired or maintained any further.

New nuclear plants are not happening and will not happen.
Existing nuclear plants are increasingly liabilities not assets.

This "hangover" is one of the many difficult inheritances we will leave our children, and the fact that you and many others choose not to believe any of it doesn't change that reality one tiny bit.
 

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Maybe not so many decades though.
I'm just thinking of how far cordless tools have come in the last 20 years - from heavy relatively underpowered units that would need a battery change every hour at least to much lighter and more nimble units with enough power to twist your damn arm off if you're not careful and that will run almost half a day even with regular use.

A couple of decades goes by in a flash, and it's a long time in tech development nowadays.
That's a good point. But keep in mind the difference between a power tool and a vehicle that's runs on batteries is night and day. You're talking about a machine that requires 1000 times times the capacity and efficiency over a power hand tool.
 

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Wind turbines killing birds. They fly through the rotors and getting chopped up.
Solar panels on your roof is one thing- but a solar farm in the desert, 200 acres large is a different level. They distract birds and also is proven that certain animals living there disappeared.
And we do not talk about the issues with wind turbines yet, where most running on idle, as the wire resistance does not allow the transport over distance at the same time all turbines produce together. It's a waste of money.
Also, as the turbines are in mostly remote areas, the power loss on distance does not allow the power to go, where its needed. The idea is good- but in reality, not practical, too expensive and too dangerous for the ecosystem. They destroy with primitive clean energy more than all nuclear power plants combined. But explain that some politicians with bartender background.
Oh ok. That makes sense. But as far as animals disappearing...sounds like you mean they were driven away from their homes.
 

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One thing that has not been brought up is the life expectancy of the wind turbines. Up here the wind companies sign a contract with the land owner farmers for 20 years. They then pull out leaving the dismantle of the turbine up to the land owner. Another thing they do is dictate what the land owners can do on their land for a good distance around. A land owner may want to put up a 2 story chicken or other livestock barn but can't due the possible interference with the wind pattern to the wind mill. Those are just a few of the fine print pieces in the contracts they make the land owners sign.
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 · (Edited)
It cost $14 dollars to charge the vehicle in this vehicle to start the test.


This was on their fuel mileage test route, not their Ike Gauntlet towing run. Sorry but Electric trucks are not ready for prime time. They had to slow down to minimum speed on the expressway while tailgating/drafting. Once they made it to a charge station it gave them a 2 hour charge time and only an 80% charge would occur. They even had to turn off the A/C to conserve power and it was 97 degrees out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Hre we go up the Ike Gauntlet lets see what happens.


LOL, they are using a Ram to tow the trailer part way to conserve battery power in the Tesla.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Long distance towing with electric.


Who needs to worry about were each charging station is the entire time you are driving.

This trip which is really not that long they would spend an estimated 6 hours charging the batteries, who want to spend 6 hours waiting for batteries to charge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 · (Edited)
Seems charging these electric vehicles are not so convenient after all.


LOL, so someone can brag they only spent $10.00 dollars to charge their electric vehicle but it also took them 10 hours to do it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
OK lets do an actual truck instead of an SUV.

 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
What about Semi trucks.

 
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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
The more batteries they put in them the heavier the truck gets which means it reduces the allowed payload.
 

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Wouldn't the weight of the batteries be offset by the lack of a diesel engine and two tanks of fuel, which together would weight almost 5000 pounds?
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
Right now they can't come close the range of a Diesel truck mileage wise, so they will have to add more and more batteries currently they are in the 150 to 200 mile range, but the other problem is when you load the truck the power consumption goes up big time reducing the range.

As it is now the electric car batteries are weighing in at around 1,300 pounds, now imagine having to move a loaded semi truck the amount of battery capacity you will need to travel 2,500 miles.
 

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I hadn't really been thinking about electric semi trucks all that much. I'd heard the stories about Musk's bragging, and I knew Volvo has an ongoing program for development, but I have to to say that video on the topic of electric semis painted a more optimistic picture than I expected.
The conclusion the guy draws is that big EV trucks are coming because, in spite of their obvious disadvantages in range/refueling times, their operating costs are low enough to make them profitable in some (not all, obviously) applications.

In Europe that operating cost advantage is bigger simply because the cost of diesel is so much higher, but even here in the US it's significant enough to justify a switch, mostly for local stop and start delivery routes.
For cross country, time critical, long haul routes, not so much. Diesel is the king there and not just by a little bit. As has been pointed out here in this thread repeatedly, EV tech is not going to change that situation anytime soon.

In the future of course, expansion of rail freight capability could eliminate much of the long haul truck traffic for non-perishable goods.
There is no more fuel efficient (gallons per mile per ton) transportation method than rail, but its disadvantage over trucking is speed. But for non-perishable freight the only reason that's an issue is the adoption of "time of need" industrial supply chains that have become the norm so as to reduce warehousing costs.
I can see a situation where, with some adjustments to supply chain logistics, almost all non-perishable long haul freight could increasingly be carried on improved rail networks, and much of the local semi-truck delivery traffic could become electric.

And the math favoring EV's for the "soccer mom" and "daily commute" kind of traffic in urban setting is still favorable for EV's simply because the vast portion of that traffic consists of vehicles which come nowhere close to exhausting a single charge even using current battery technology, so they can be fully charged overnight with minimal, if any, additions to an ordinary 200A domestic house supply. No need to even wait for a big build-out of charging infrastructure.

And again, there is no way electric pickup trucks are going to become a viable replacement for our 3500 in any of our lifetimes, not the way we use it for long haul camping trips almost fully laden with an in-bed camper. Same is true for HD trucks used in agriculture to haul goosenecks, or in construction to deliver a backhoe, or recreational trucks hauling 5th wheels etc etc.

But that's not the case for LD trucks in urban setting used as very short range service vehicles by electricians, plumbers, carpenters etc. Those vehicles can also handle a day's work on a single charge and just be plugged in at night. EV tech is already advanced enough to serve a large portion of that market, also without a big build-out of charging infrastructure.

The change is coming, and being as it will be driven by the economics of the operating cost savings for private industry and businesses, the change is going to be market-driven and completely unstoppable.
Which is exactly as it should be.
 

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I'm surprised Telsa hasnt tried designing a "new and improved" EV Humvee for the military..."solar powered for deployment" 🤣🤪
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 · (Edited)
Florida years ago figured out how much it cost in lost commerce for every hour a road was closed due to a traffic crash and it came out to one million dollars in lost commerce for every hour a road was closed. Imagine trucks sitting for several hours waiting for batteries to be charged how much lost commerce would happen.

The videos I posted where in a gas or diesel powered vehicle would take 19 hours to complete the trip was pushed up to I think they said 26 hours due to having to wait for batteries to be recharged. They did not even complete the trip because they could not make it to the next charging station station and ended up calling for a flat bed to pick up the Tesla.

Local businesses would not fair well at all with electric powered work trucks as many trucks are loaded down getting product to the job site, that increases the amount of battery power used up as the videos showed. This you can just charge it overnight as the cure won't work either, there is an A/C company where I live that must have 50 trucks, that means they would have to have 50 charging stations, the electrical service you would need to handle that load would be enormous.

As the videos show these public charging stations will limit the amount of charge if all the stations are being used, one limited the guy in the video to an 80% charge. Other charging stations were only operational during certain hours such as 8:00 am to 5:00 pm.

Electric cars have been around since the beginning of the automobile and here we are in 2021 and they still are not the answer.

Here is another issue with electric vehicles, gas taxes, they are not paying any gas taxes to use the roads so that means governments are going to make up there own estimated number so your tag that used to cost $70 dollars a year might now cost you $750 to $1,000 dollars a year in electric vehicle road use taxes.

We have not even touched on battery degradation as you charge it over and over, every time you charge a battery it degrades a little bit so the longer you have the electric car the lower the charging capacity becomes as the battery ages. My iPhone is a prime example it is just over 3 years old and it is down to 82% battery capacity so I have lost 18% capacity of the battery.

If your electric car got 325 miles on a full 100% charge it is now down to 266.5 miles per charge because the battery is down to 82% capacity on a full charge. You have lost 58.5 miles driving distance and this continues to go down as the battery ages and receives more charges.
 
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