[Thunderhorse]

...Since the EcoDiesel came out, but Ford finally pulled the covers off their 1/2 ton diesel:

https://www. caranddriver.com/news/2018-ford-f-150-diesel-full-details-news?src=socialflowFBCAD&mag=cdb&dom=fb

I don't buy the bit about limited manufacturing capacity or financial concerns; FCA has less of both. Aside from the VW-inspired diesel witch hunt they haven't been able to keep them on the lots.

3.0 Liters, CGI block with aluminum heads, and interestingly enough a timing belt that requires changes every 150,000 miles. It will be produced alongside the Range Rover Td6, from which it is derived, at Ford's Dagenham engine plant in England.

Compare to the Ecodiesel: Also 3.0L, CGI block with aluminum heads and timing chains. Built at VM Motori's Cento plant.

Output numbers for the Ford are 250 hp and 440 lb-ft, so 10 hp and 20 lb-ft more than the L630 Ram uses. Max torque for the Ford comes in 250 RPM lower than the Ram at 1750 vs 2000. Max tow for the Ford is 11,400 and payload is 2020 vs 9290 and 1640; though that likely has more to do with suspension differences between the Ram and F150 as a whole than the powertrains.

Overall it seems pretty similar to the L630 in most respects, though the Ford does weigh 620lbs vs 507 for the L630 fully dressed. I am actually kind of underwhelmed, I expected that with the EcoDiesel being on the market for 4 years already Ford would have been able to do better than 10/20 hp/tq better. Ford could have literally bought EcoDiesels to compare against and analyze (and I'm sure they did).

What they haven't announced yet is MPGs, which I expect will be high 20s, but maybe 30 highway. It will probably be about 2 MPG better than the EcoDiesel in city mileage since the 3.0 PowerStroke will have auto stop/start standard. It will cost $4,000 over the 2.7 EcoBoost so about as much a premium as the EcoDiesel costs.

Unfortunately it looks like they are doing what Chevy does with the 6.2 and making this a trim restricted engine. It will only be available on the Lariat, King Ranch, and Platinum trims-at least for 2018. If you're a fleet buyer you can get it in any trim with the Crew or Extended cab, but only with the 8' bed on the extended cab. Hopefully they will open it up to all trims, except maybe the FX2/4 since that is their Sport trim and would be understandable, in the future. Maybe they are just gauging interest for 2018 :4-dontknow:

Can't wait to see the dieselbobs rolling coal up the merge ramp in half tons

 

[Garc]

About a day late and several dollars short, luckily Dearborn already owns most of the half ton market so they can afford to test the waters.

 

[Thunderhorse]

The DT reveal is supposed to be a week from today IIRC; I am sure they will have significant powertrain improvements to announce and that those will include the EcoDiesel. 10/20 doesn't seem like it would be much of an improvement over the current 240/420 numbers, so I am reasonably certain the DT Diesel will eclipse the Ford in a matter of days.

I am interested to see what they do to address people's misgivings about the L630's reliability. I have seen some very high mileage examples (like VernDiesel's at over 370,000) and everyone I know with one loves it-but there seem to be a lot of guys who had reliability issues

 

[huntergreen]

Ford doesn't have the best track record with diesels.

 

[2014Beluga]

The DT reveal is supposed to be a week from today IIRC; I am sure they will have significant powertrain improvements to announce and that those will include the EcoDiesel. 10/20 doesn't seem like it would be much of an improvement over the current 240/420 numbers, so I am reasonably certain the DT Diesel will eclipse the Ford in a matter of days.

I had the same thought, why release those figures just days ahead of the DT release when Ram is likely to improve on the existing EcoDiesel.

Ford's tow rating is higher due to their lower curb weight from using all that aluminum, but once we see what the new Rams weigh and what changes the driveline sees, should be fun to watch.

 

[GTyankee]

Ram is going to a aluminum hood & tailgate, not that much weight savings, but it is something.

Even this video contains old news as far as the current Warren Michigan Assembly Plant is concerned.
Instead of some Jeep models that were going to start being built there in the very near future, it looks like Heavy Duty Rams will be built there instead
hopefully they will update the Paint Shop !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d3RsWjmq9Q

Latest FCA Media news:

http://media.fcanorthamerica.com/newsrelease.do?id=18780&mid=1

 

[Thunderhorse]

Ford doesn't have the best track record with diesels.

They have a well deserved terrible reputation for diesels. Other than the 7.3, I would take a Duramax over any Powerstroke, and I'd take a Cummins over any of those

I had the same thought, why release those figures just days ahead of the DT release when Ram is likely to improve on the existing EcoDiesel.

Ford's tow rating is higher due to their lower curb weight from using all that aluminum, but once we see what the new Rams weigh and what changes the driveline sees, should be fun to watch.

I was actually surprised to see that when they went to aluminum bodies they also reduced the GVWR by a few hundred pounds too. Not by as much as the amount of weight they reduced, but the 700 or however many lbs they saved in weight did not translate to a 700lb increase in payload.

Regardless, the teasers Ram has put out are saying the DT will have unmatched capability so I expect they are beefing up the stock rear coils to deliver similar payloads to Chevy and ford half tons (not the Fords with the ridiculous 3000lb payload and 7 lug hubs-just buy a 3/4 ton).

Ram is going to a aluminum hood & tailgate, not that much weight savings, but it is something.

Even this video contains old news as far as the current Warren Michigan Assembly Plant is concerned.
Instead of some Jeep models that were going to start being built there in the very near future, it looks like Heavy Duty Rams will be built there instead

The DS Rams already have aluminum hoods; I think the DJ hoods are still steel though.

 

[2014Beluga]

I was actually surprised to see that when they went to aluminum bodies they also reduced the GVWR by a few hundred pounds too. Not by as much as the amount of weight they reduced, but the 700 or however many lbs they saved in weight did not translate to a 700lb increase in payload.

I wonder if the reduced weight of the Fords made them unstable towing heavy trailers, that had the GVWR stayed the same, the extra few thousand pounds at 10% tongue weight would have been a problem in heavy cross winds and other situations where a much heavier rear end is problem?

Totally speculating of course, but those Nissan XD guys really make a big deal out of "oh yeah I'm so much more confident towing 10k with the expensive Class-2B-but-don't-you-dare-call-it-a-3/4-ton pickup than an F150 or 1500".

 

[Thunderhorse]

I wonder if the reduced weight of the Fords made them unstable towing heavy trailers, that had the GVWR stayed the same, the extra few thousand pounds at 10% tongue weight would have been a problem in heavy cross winds and other situations where a much heavier rear end is problem?

Totally speculating of course, but those Nissan XD guys really make a big deal out of "oh yeah I'm so much more confident towing 10k with the expensive Class-2B-but-don't-you-dare-call-it-a-3/4-ton pickup than an F150 or 1500".

I'm sure that has plenty to do with it; a lighter truck is nice for unloaded driving and fuel mileage, but a heavier truck reduces the "tail wagging the dog" effect.

Nissan does not have a diesel half ton, the XD is an underperforming 3/4 ton (GVWR is over 8500lbs despite how Nissan's marketing department tries to spin it), but I am sure with its weight it out tows 1/2 tons. Really if you tow over 4 tons regularly you need more than a half ton.

 

[Jared26]

JL Wrangler Ecodiesel is 260hp 442lb ft expect DT to be at least that.

Also GM showed off their 2019 Silverado today and it's going to have a 3.0 I believe it was inline 6 Duramax diesel. They didn't say any numbers though today. Infact I watched their livestream and they really said a lot of nothing, I think they're playing games waiting to see what the competition says before they release any numbers for anything. What was interesting is the 5.3 and 6.2 are supposed to be thoroughly updated and have the ability to run on 1-8 cylinders as needed.

 

[Thunderhorse]

JL Wrangler Ecodiesel is 260hp 442lb ft expect DT to be at least that.

Also GM showed off their 2019 Silverado today and it's going to have a 3.0 I believe it was inline 6 Duramax diesel. They didn't say any numbers though today. Infact I watched their livestream and they really said a lot of nothing, I think they're playing games waiting to see what the competition says before they release any numbers for anything. What was interesting is the 5.3 and 6.2 are supposed to be thoroughly updated and have the ability to run on 1-8 cylinders as needed.

I've been on a ski trip this weekend so I've just been looking from my phone; hadn't seen the info on the Jeep diesel or Silverado. You're the man for auto news here it seems.

That's probably the same tune the JT pickup will get, the Ram might get one that's a little hotter like how the Ram 1500 has the hottest tune for the Eagle Hemi. I guess it will still edge the Ford even with those numbers, though the difference won't be significant for more than bragging rights.

I would prefer an inline layout, I guess we will see how the Duramax turns out numbers wise. I expect it may be down on power compared to the other two. The current Ecot3c was significantly less powerful than the Hemi and Iforce when it launched in 2014 and the Coyote quickly passed it. I am not sure how useful deactivating more than 4 cylinders would be though cutting down to 6 might be. Given GMs history of problems with cylinder deactivation (both the 8-6-4-2 system in old Cadillacs and the more recent versions with oil consumption) I am curious how that will work out for them.

 

[Jared26]

Given GMs history of problems with cylinder deactivation (both the 8-6-4-2 system in old Cadillacs and the more recent versions with oil consumption) I am curious how that will work out for them.

That's pretty much the first thing that went through my head. I have a feeling the answer is not well.

 

[riprook]

According to my knowledge Ford have the best performance I have seen with diesels.

 

[Thunderhorse]

According to my knowledge Ford have the best performance I have seen with diesels.

Have you seen the 6.0 and 6.4L?

 

[WillB]

Ford lost me at timing belt.


Ram still uses the easiest to service least complex diesel on the market - the I-6 Cummins. The ED is a solid engine now that they have the oiling issue straightened out.

GM is using a new 3.0 I-6 Dmax for the 1500.

 

[Thunderhorse]

Ford lost me at timing belt.


Ram still uses the easiest to service least complex diesel on the market - the I-6 Cummins. The ED is a solid engine now that they have the oiling issue straightened out.

GM is using a new 3.0 I-6 Dmax for the 1500.

The DMax 4 banger is a VM engine just like the EcoDiesel. The EcoDiesel is pretty well sorted out, most issues seem to be due to emissions stuff like EGR.

 

[WillB]

The DMax 4 banger is a VM engine just like the EcoDiesel. The EcoDiesel is pretty well sorted out, most issues seem to be due to emissions stuff like EGR.

The new 3.0 for the 1500 is an Inline 6. Is it a VM engine too?

 

[Thunderhorse]

The new 3.0 for the 1500 is an Inline 6. Is it a VM engine too?

That I am not sure of, I don't think a lot of details are out on it yet. The 4 banger is called a Duramax and is in the Colorado, but as I said before its not an Isuzu designed GM produced engine like the HD Duramax is.

 

[WillB]

That I am not sure of, I don't think a lot of details are out on it yet. The 4 banger is called a Duramax and is in the Colorado, but as I said before its not an Isuzu designed GM produced engine like the HD Duramax is.

Thanks. I’m enjoying my Ram to much to ever buy GM again.

An HD Ram would be nice.

 

[Thunderhorse]

.

An HD Ram would be nice.

Same here. Mine would be a 392 cube 3/4 ton