DODGE RAM FORUM banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
34,750 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
We are getting a BOF Ram based SUV to compete with the K2XX and Expedition under the Jeep name. Hate to say I told ya so, but the Wagoneer will be BOF and it appears that the Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer name will denote the wheelbase like the Caravan/Grand Caravan, Voyager/Grand Voyager, Tahoe/Suburban, etc...

It will be a Ram as much as an Escalade is a Silverado, I don't have a problem with just the name and maybe styling being different. Depending on where I am financially in a decade or so it may replace the wife's Durango; she actually wanted a Tahoe/Suburban because that's what all the "hot suburban moms have" (I guess she wants to be one of those), but there was no way given that the base Tahoe 2wd starts just below $50k, and its a Chevy. This will allow me to get her into the status symbol SUV she wants without buying something other than Mopar and settling for GMs cheap feel or selling my soul to Ford/satan.

People seem to have trouble believing that Jeep would sell a $100,000 vehicle, but Escalades run that high with all the options and the long wheelbase, and if you don't think Jeep can build something nicer than GM, even Cadillac, I think you are delusional.

I think its a smart move, heck even Nissan and Toyota have BOF SUVs though they offer no long wheelbase option. And the 4th gen Ram platform is already better than most BOF SUVs with the 8 speed and 5.7 Hemi- better than or closely competitive in both power and efficiency. Even if they keep it on the old 4th gen platform and don't go to the 5th gen it will be very competitive, and coil springs are already well adapted to SUV use (the K2XX SUVs have coil sprung rears unlike the trucks); I do hope they keep the live axle though instead of going to IRS like Ford did when they based the Expedition off the F150. The Apache 392 Hemi could be used in the high end ones to compete with the 6.2 LS in the GMs. The chassis and Powertrains are already developed, so aside from tweaking those and designing the interior and sheet steel it is already developed to a great extent. Add the EcoDiesel and you have a 28MPG Suburban competitor-nobody can touch that, and the motor mounts and engine controls and stuff are already not only developed but in production.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/2020-j...er-wrangler-pickup-on-track/?src=socialflowFB

I know we all would like to see a Ramcharger to compete with the upcoming Bronco (which will really be an Everest give or take), but if you can swallow the branding and styling of Jeep then I really think this is it. Even in SWB form I think it, and the Bronco, will both be 4 doors, though if they wanted to do a 2 door they could use the RC Ram doors and just develop tooling for new unisides. Also, since it is a Jeep, and BOFs are typically easier to lift, I think this will become the darling of the rich people with lifted vehicles and off road communities, and should have some serious capability to boot-probably only outdone by the Wrangler in Jeep's lineup.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,834 Posts
We are getting a BOF Ram based SUV to compete with the K2XX and Expedition under the Jeep name. Hate to say I told ya so, but the Wagoneer will be BOF and it appears that the Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer name will denote the wheelbase like the Caravan/Grand Caravan, Voyager/Grand Voyager, Tahoe/Suburban, etc...

It will be a Ram as much as an Escalade is a Silverado, I don't have a problem with just the name and maybe styling being different. Depending on where I am financially in a decade or so it may replace the wife's Durango; she actually wanted a Tahoe/Suburban because that's what all the "hot suburban moms have" (I guess she wants to be one of those), but there was no way given that the base Tahoe 2wd starts just below $50k, and its a Chevy. This will allow me to get her into the status symbol SUV she wants without buying something other than Mopar and settling for GMs cheap feel or selling my soul to Ford/satan.

People seem to have trouble believing that Jeep would sell a $100,000 vehicle, but Escalades run that high with all the options and the long wheelbase, and if you don't think Jeep can build something nicer than GM, even Cadillac, I think you are delusional.

I think its a smart move, heck even Nissan and Toyota have BOF SUVs though they offer no long wheelbase option. And the 4th gen Ram platform is already better than most BOF SUVs with the 8 speed and 5.7 Hemi- better than or closely competitive in both power and efficiency. Even if they keep it on the old 4th gen platform and don't go to the 5th gen it will be very competitive, and coil springs are already well adapted to SUV use (the K2XX SUVs have coil sprung rears unlike the trucks); I do hope they keep the live axle though instead of going to IRS like Ford did when they based the Expedition off the F150. The Apache 392 Hemi could be used in the high end ones to compete with the 6.2 LS in the GMs. The chassis and Powertrains are already developed, so aside from tweaking those and designing the interior and sheet steel it is already developed to a great extent. Add the EcoDiesel and you have a 28MPG Suburban competitor-nobody can touch that, and the motor mounts and engine controls and stuff are already not only developed but in production.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/2020-j...er-wrangler-pickup-on-track/?src=socialflowFB

I know we all would like to see a Ramcharger to compete with the upcoming Bronco (which will really be an Everest give or take), but if you can swallow the branding and styling of Jeep then I really think this is it. Even in SWB form I think it, and the Bronco, will both be 4 doors, though if they wanted to do a 2 door they could use the RC Ram doors and just develop tooling for new unisides. Also, since it is a Jeep, and BOFs are typically easier to lift, I think this will become the darling of the rich people with lifted vehicles and off road communities, and should have some serious capability to boot-probably only outdone by the Wrangler in Jeep's lineup.
Or blind, the current JGC is stupid nice!

Also if this is a thing then I guess my mom's sequoia will finally be replaced with an American car.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
34,750 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Or blind, the current JGC is stupid nice!

Also if this is a thing then I guess my mom's sequoia will finally be replaced with an American car.
I was thinking the same. Mama needs a replacement for her tired Honda Odyssey. It got rear ended and hit with a sheet of sheet rock and since it has 180,000 miles dad just took the money instead of having it repaired. It still runs and is waterproof, but he wouldn't get that much on trade even if it were pristine with all the miles.

She wants a Grand Cherokee but they want something bigger. Right now they are looking at Durangos after seeing mine, but I think this would be a good fit
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
814 Posts
I'm really, really, really happy about this. I don't care for the car-inspired stuff on the Expedition. Like the Tahoe but the oddities of GM vehicles and the stupid low chin spoiler are turn offs.

That being said, I can't quite see people paying Escalade money for a Grand Wagoneer. Jeep's brand equity is strong but doesn't reside with the Escalade crowd. Sure, a few JKU buyers can go all out and end up spending 65k on a optioned out Rubicon with rocket take off assist from a C130, but getting the Martha's Vineyard types who currently own an old Wagoneer to go to the same dealership as us common folk, or worse yet, their butlers?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
34,750 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
That would just be the range topper though, and I don't think anyone thought they'd pay 80k for a Cadillac branded Suburban before the Escalade came out either.

I guess we will see
 

·
Dodge Ram Forum Senior Member
Joined
·
3,245 Posts
I think people will buy that Wagoneer even if it is priced ridiculously. I mean, look at all the people that buy Range Rovers, Land Rovers, etc. Hell, I'm sure people in the 80's never thought there would be $60,000+ half ton pickup trucks with ventilated seats and heated steering wheels for sale and people buy them every day!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,012 Posts
If they are going to do this, I can see the logic of trying it under the Jeep name plate. As pointed out by TH, They are the SUV wing of FCA...RAM is trucks....RAM just doesnt seem like the place to be for an SUV. Unfortunately, Dodge just doesn't carry that certain je ne sais quoi ...
While I like variety and Id love to see them do well, I think its very risky. The main day to day competitors are highly refined and firmly entrenched.
The top end competitors are the same way and they've built their high end luxury reputation for YEARS. People in the market for high end lux SUVs, Range Rover, Escalade, etc...most are not likely to pass them up for a Jeep. Maybe just a few. Sorry but on a meanfull scale, that ain't happening. Thinking any differently on that is what's delusional. High End Jeeps will be sold mostly to Jeep loyalists who come into enough disposable income to have their Jeep cake and eat it too.

But, and thats a BIG BUT...if they can make these new SUVs something somewhat special they might sell enough overall to make them worthwhile to produce. I see a collective sigh of relief from the public at large and we might be entering into a serious uptick in economic activity...that means the average folks are gonna want big ole SUVs and the more variety the better. I just feel FCA is a lot too late to the party.
One thing FCA has going for it is a world class marketing agency. Put them to work on these new SUVs and they have the power to stir some emotions.

I like where youre going with a 392 ;) That would be awesooooome but not likely. I think they should roll out the red carpet on engine choices. DO NOT pigeon hole the powertrain.

We can argue it all day, but if FCA has made the commitment then we are just going to have to wait and see how it all goes.

As for the Bronco, I hate to admit it but it looks like they are going to base it on an Everest. Thats just too bad. As a former Bronco owner (1994 Bronco) I hate to see it come back all watered down and neutered. I just talked to a friend today who literally just got back in town from working all over the globe for the last two years. This subject of the Bronco came up. He said that hes been places where there were Everests everywhere. He said they are nice enough vehicles but they are basically like old Explorers. To pass them off as a Bronco? Not good. But even though we have a good idea, nobody really knows how the Bronco will end up. Having the cult following that they do, I think we are going to see leaks pretty fast on this one.
But Im not optimistic about the new Bronco. Ford just cant pass up the opportunity to make a few bucks of that iconic name......
FWIW, They should've based more on the Ford Troller. They could have at least said they were returning to its roots.

Id hate to see the return of a Ramcharger, as a former owner (84, 89 & 91) I couldnt stand the sight of it being ANYTHING less than a BOF, full sized, 2 door, truck based SUV.....Since the days of the BOF, full sized, 2 door, truck based SUV are over, never to return, Id just rather the Ramcharger Rest In Peace.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
32,782 Posts
Humvee go the idea from Jeep
Looks like it will go back the other way now

maybe a streamlined Scorpion UPC type vehicle
perfect for soccer moms with a fat wallet
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
351 Posts
What does BOF mean?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
351 Posts
Body On Frame. As in a body is placed on top of a frame, like a pickup truck. not a unibody like the Jeep Grand Cherokee.
Okay, thanks. I kind of felt dumb asking, but I wouldn't know now. I feel a tad bit smarter now. :smileup:
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
34,750 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,407 Posts
I have been holding off on buying a new ride for the wife for over 3 years now cause i keep hearing about the Grand Wagoneer. I hope that this is coming true in the next couple of years. I dont know how much longer her car will last.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
34,750 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I have been holding off on buying a new ride for the wife for over 3 years now cause i keep hearing about the Grand Wagoneer. I hope that this is coming true in the next couple of years. I dont know how much longer her car will last.
That's one thing that pushed me into getting the Durango when we did; aside from the clean, well equipped one we got and the deal we got (also interest rates are going up and will be further), I wasn't confident in her 2008 Elantra with 186,000 miles on it. It wasn't the mileage so much as the questionable service history, fact that its a Hyundai, and fact that it stranded her with an electrical system failure at 11pm in a driving rainstorm in the boonies of Georgia when she was moving out East to live with me.

What does your wife have?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,407 Posts
That's one thing that pushed me into getting the Durango when we did; aside from the clean, well equipped one we got and the deal we got (also interest rates are going up and will be further), I wasn't confident in her 2008 Elantra with 186,000 miles on it. It wasn't the mileage so much as the questionable service history, fact that its a Hyundai, and fact that it stranded her with an electrical system failure at 11pm in a driving rainstorm in the boonies of Georgia when she was moving out East to live with me.

What does your wife have?
She is currently Driving a 09 Jeep Liberty Limited Fully loaded. Last I checked it had 210,000 miles on it. Its to the point that the suspension is starting to nickle and dime us. But the good thing is we have the lifetime powertrain warranty and its been paid of for 4 years
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top