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I own a Ram but it is becoming increasingly obvious that the 3.5L Ecoboost is superior in every way to the Hemi engine. The 5.0 Coyote motor has a slight edge, as well... I was hoping there would be major improvements made to the 2019 model, but it’s basically the same engine that’s been used for almost 10 years. Ford surpassed the hemi with the ecoboost and continues to make improvements. Even GM has eclipsed the Ram with the new 6.2L option.

When it comes time to buy a new truck- what will keep you from purchasing a Ford with the 3.5? I drove one and was hoping not to be impressed, but aside from the exhaust sound, it embarrasses my slightly modded 5.7 Ram.
 

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The 5.0 from Ford doesn't beat the Hemi in any way. Not in power, torque, or fuel mileage. The 6.2 from GM is trim restricted, and takes premium fuel, and GM is so aggressive with their torque management that it doesn't feel much more powerful than a Hemi.


The main benefit of the Ecoboost is that it makes toque low in the RPM band so it makes better average power than a naturally aspirated engine. This is true of any turbocharged engine, and is why turbodiesels make so much power at such low RPMs. In the real world they get about the same mileage as a Hemi or any of the other similar size V8s. It takes the same amount of fuel to produce a given amount of energy to move a load a certain distance in a certain amount of time-turbos just allow you to do it with less displacement by cramming more air into a smaller space to achieve the correct fuel/air ratio. So the only fuel efficiency advantage comes from having less rotating inertia.


As to why I'd still buy a Hemi Ram over the others, I think its a better truck engine, and that's not only about power. Its the only engine offered in a half ton pickup that is also offered in the heavy duty trucks. The 6.2 GM engine is all aluminum and only in the 1500s; the Ecoboost and Coyote aren't available in the F250; but the 5.7 Hemi was used in 1 ton duallies up through 2014 when the 6.4 truck Hemi came out. The only difference between the Hemi in my Ram and the Hemi in the stakebed duallies I have at work is the cam and the tune. Ford uses an iron block 6.2 and Chevy uses an iron block 6.0 in their HDs as their gas engine option.


If the Ecoboost is such a better truck engine then why can't you get an F-350 with one? Making a lot of average power is one thing, but truck use-towing and hauling- places a heavy load on an engine and is very hard on it. High strung configurations (small displacement with large amounts of boost) are also very hard on an engine. Combine the two and I don't trust that an all aluminum open deck engine is a good choice for truck use in the long run if you don't want to walk head gaskets
 

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Very well said. Plus I think even the 5th gen Rams looks better then the current Ford's. I am still more partial to the 4th gens but as always time will do its job and I will start looking the 5th gens more and more.
The 5.0 from Ford doesn't beat the Hemi in any way. Not in power, torque, or fuel mileage. The 6.2 from GM is trim restricted, and takes premium fuel, and GM is so aggressive with their torque management that it doesn't feel much more powerful than a Hemi.


The main benefit of the Ecoboost is that it makes toque low in the RPM band so it makes better average power than a naturally aspirated engine. This is true of any turbocharged engine, and is why turbodiesels make so much power at such low RPMs. In the real world they get about the same mileage as a Hemi or any of the other similar size V8s. It takes the same amount of fuel to produce a given amount of energy to move a load a certain distance in a certain amount of time-turbos just allow you to do it with less displacement by cramming more air into a smaller space to achieve the correct fuel/air ratio. So the only fuel efficiency advantage comes from having less rotating inertia.


As to why I'd still buy a Hemi Ram over the others, I think its a better truck engine, and that's not only about power. Its the only engine offered in a half ton pickup that is also offered in the heavy duty trucks. The 6.2 GM engine is all aluminum and only in the 1500s; the Ecoboost and Coyote aren't available in the F250; but the 5.7 Hemi was used in 1 ton duallies up through 2014 when the 6.4 truck Hemi came out. The only difference between the Hemi in my Ram and the Hemi in the stakebed duallies I have at work is the cam and the tune. Ford uses an iron block 6.2 and Chevy uses an iron block 6.0 in their HDs as their gas engine option.


If the Ecoboost is such a better truck engine then why can't you get an F-350 with one? Making a lot of average power is one thing, but truck use-towing and hauling- places a heavy load on an engine and is very hard on it. High strung configurations (small displacement with large amounts of boost) are also very hard on an engine. Combine the two and I don't trust that an all aluminum open deck engine is a good choice for truck use in the long run if you don't want to walk head gaskets
 

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I own a Ram but it is becoming increasingly obvious that the 3.5L Ecoboost is superior in every way to the Hemi engine. The 5.0 Coyote motor has a slight edge, as well... I was hoping there would be major improvements made to the 2019 model, but it’s basically the same engine that’s been used for almost 10 years. Ford surpassed the hemi with the ecoboost and continues to make improvements. Even GM has eclipsed the Ram with the new 6.2L option.

When it comes time to buy a new truck- what will keep you from purchasing a Ford with the 3.5? I drove one and was hoping not to be impressed, but aside from the exhaust sound, it embarrasses my slightly modded 5.7 Ram.
Some see that as a negative, but some (like me) see that as a positive. Its a mature platform. It makes great HP and torque for its displacement.

I test drove an Ecoboost F150 with the 2.7L (at the time the gen2 3.5 was scarce and I wanted one with the graphite block for durability). I was impressed with the power, of course. But I honestly didnt like the *truck*. Great engine or not, if I dont like the truck I aint buying it.

There is still the question of DI and needing special cleanings. The fact that all the F truck forums say you should add a catch can on Day 0 attests to that. Its not a deal breaker, I have no problem doing something like that, but to me it just shows the platform isnt completely mature yet.

Why doesnt Ford put a catch can on the trucks from the factory? Will the warranty be voided if someone adds one and the engine grenades? Or do I not add one and possibly deal with expensive maintenance further down the road?

Innovation wise, yes, the F150 drivetrains are "better" than the Hemi. But overall Im not sold, yet. That 10 speed everyone is referring to is brand new as well....RAM went with the 8HP70/75 that has been used in LOADS of vehicles for a long time now, and seems to have a low failure/complaint rate. I would be interested to see just how much mpg 2 more gears would gain....IMHO anything after 6 or 7 is just there to make the EPA happy.
 

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Some see that as a negative, but some (like me) see that as a positive. Its a mature platform. It makes great HP and torque for its displacement.

I test drove an Ecoboost F150 with the 2.7L (at the time the gen2 3.5 was scarce and I wanted one with the graphite block for durability). I was impressed with the power, of course. But I honestly didnt like the *truck*. Great engine or not, if I dont like the truck I aint buying it.

There is still the question of DI and needing special cleanings. The fact that all the F truck forums say you should add a catch can on Day 0 attests to that. Its not a deal breaker, I have no problem doing something like that, but to me it just shows the platform isnt completely mature yet.

Why doesnt Ford put a catch can on the trucks from the factory? Will the warranty be voided if someone adds one and the engine grenades? Or do I not add one and possibly deal with expensive maintenance further down the road?

Innovation wise, yes, the F150 drivetrains are "better" than the Hemi. But overall Im not sold, yet. That 10 speed everyone is referring to is brand new as well....RAM went with the 8HP70/75 that has been used in LOADS of vehicles for a long time now, and seems to have a low failure/complaint rate. I would be interested to see just how much mpg 2 more gears would gain....IMHO anything after 6 or 7 is just there to make the EPA happy.

Well yeah...the Eagle Hemi is around 10 years old, but lets compare it to the competition:


-5.7 Hemi: 395 hp 410 tq-runs on 87 octane and is port injected 15/22 mpg (2wd)

-5.3 Ecot3c: 355hp 383 tq-with direct injection 16/23 MPG (2wd)

-6.2 L86: 420 hp 460 tq-on premium fuel 15/21 MPG (2wd)

-5.6 Endurance: 390 hp 394 lb ft-with direct injection 15/21 mpg (2wd)

-5.7L IForce: 381 hp 401 tq 13/18 MPG (2wd)

-5.0 Coyote: 395 hp 400 tq 16/22 mpg (2wd)

-3.5 EcoBoost: 375hp 470 lb ft 17/23 mpg (2wd)


So the Hemi is still ahead of most of the competition in power and/or torque, and very competitive in fuel efficiency. In fact it still makes more HP than the new 3.5L Ecoboost. It also doesn't need direct injection in order to do it. There is one competitor that makes more horsepower and there are two that make more torque-out of a field of seven engines that could reasonably be considered to be competitors. There are three that are more fuel efficient by a minute margin.

So I am left wondering why you think its so behind-I think this goes to show just how far ahead Dodge was in 2009.

The 8HP transmissions are proven performers and are an exceptionally reliable factory auto. The 10 speed may be, but that remains to be seen since it has yet to be proven. ZF went on record some time ago saying that for passenger vehicles you've reached a point of diminishing returns past 7 or 8 speeds which is why they went with 8.


Do the Ecoboosts not come with an air and oil separator built in? I know the Hellcat does, and I figured any factory built forced induction engine would. I know the 6.7 Scorpion PowerStroke does, my buddy's F-350 is in the shop right now with the engine apart getting a recall performed on it along with a new radiator
 

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Well yeah...the Eagle Hemi is around 10 years old, but lets compare it to the competition:


-5.7 Hemi: 395 hp 410 tq-runs on 87 octane and is port injected 15/22 mpg (2wd)

-5.3 Ecot3c: 355hp 383 tq-with direct injection 16/23 MPG (2wd)

-6.2 L86: 420 hp 460 tq-on premium fuel 15/21 MPG (2wd)

-5.6 Endurance: 390 hp 394 lb ft-with direct injection 15/21 mpg (2wd)

-5.7L IForce: 381 hp 401 tq 13/18 MPG (2wd)

-5.0 Coyote: 395 hp 400 tq 16/22 mpg (2wd)

-3.5 EcoBoost: 375hp 470 lb ft 17/23 mpg (2wd)


So the Hemi is still ahead of most of the competition in power and/or torque, and very competitive in fuel efficiency. In fact it still makes more HP than the new 3.5L Ecoboost. It also doesn't need direct injection in order to do it. There is one competitor that makes more horsepower and there are two that make more torque-out of a field of seven engines that could reasonably be considered to be competitors. There are three that are more fuel efficient by a minute margin.

So I am left wondering why you think its so behind-I think this goes to show just how far ahead Dodge was in 2009.

The 8HP transmissions are proven performers and are an exceptionally reliable factory auto. The 10 speed may be, but that remains to be seen since it has yet to be proven. ZF went on record some time ago saying that for passenger vehicles you've reached a point of diminishing returns past 7 or 8 speeds which is why they went with 8.


Do the Ecoboosts not come with an air and oil separator built in? I know the Hellcat does, and I figured any factory built forced induction engine would. I know the 6.7 Scorpion PowerStroke does, my buddy's F-350 is in the shop right now with the engine apart getting a recall performed on it along with a new radiator
I said its behind only in *innovation* (no forced induction, no DI, not even OHC, etc). I am in total agreement that its the best of the V8s that are left, including besting those that have more displacement.

Like you said, they've eeeked out more power and torque from an "old school" setup than most have on newer tech engines.

The flipside is that, yes, it has more power than the 3.5L EcoBoost, but it does it with 2 extra cylinders and 2.2L more displacement. Thats where the "behind only in innovation" comes in.

I wonder what kind of power could be gained by utilizing some newer tech...maybe none? Its an interesting thought, though.
 

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I think people make more hoopla about volumetric efficinecy than is warranted. Ford gets power out of a 5 liter V8 that is comparable to 6 and even 7 liter Chrysler and GM mills. If you look at the packaging though, a 5 liter DOHC Ford is about the same size as a 7 liter Chevy, so what's the benefit? Peak output? Sure the DOHC revs higher, but the 7 liter crushes it below its redline and the only reason the DOHC makes more power at all is that it has a higher redline. Volumetric efficiency is a facile gauge of performance.


Port injection doesn't require media blasting the valves every 60,000 miles and the injectors are way easier and cheaper to replace. One reason I went with a Durango is that comparable SUVs making similar power did it with DI-and they were hooked to 6 speeds. I would always prefer making power by less complicated means for the sake of longevity and ease/cost of maintenance; why would I opt for an engine with similar performance if it costs more in upkeep?


The highest mileage Ecoboost I am aware of is 366,000 miles. EcoDiesels go that far. We have multiple members over 400,000 on Hemis (one guy said 700k but didn't post odometer pics), and there are some over 500k
 

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Unfortunately the Ram is one of the slowest 0-60 and one of the longest braking times - of course a lot of this is due to the weight. The Ram 1500 is one of the heaviest light duty trucks - crew cab trim.
Which kills 0-60, braking, and payload.


But I bought a Ram for a couple of reasons.
Well tested and durable engine and trans (8 sp).
I know the general systems as they really haven't changed in 20 years - bit fancier now but still the same basic MAP system vs. MAF.
Not sure if others offer it, but the extended warranty for a lifetime was reasonable to me - and mind you, I can do all but the trans, but am not getting any younger.
And finally I know several of the techs at my local dealer.


Gm was no go for me due to A. they just don't appeal to me. B. the way the bailout was handled.


Ford would have been an option as I can get A plan discounts, but didn't realize the 5.0 was that far up on performance and the Ecoboost is iffy to me for owning 15-20 yrs.


Toyota - meh, never have been impressed with anything toyota.


Nissan - again DI.
 

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just like Thunderhorse said you cant beat the hemi, and with the 8speed trans this setup can last forever just take care of it i had ford, gm,gmc never toyota or its counterpart the other jap truck. its ram for me
 

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the Ram is one of the slowest 0-60 and one of the longest braking times - of course a lot of this is due to the weight. The Ram 1500 is one of the heaviest light duty trucks - crew cab trim.
Which kills 0-60, braking, and payload.

Correct, that is a weight thing and not a powertrain thing-and weight is an advantage when towing heavier, and especially longer trailers.


Also why "this truck is slightly quicker" comparisons are of minimal importance
 

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Correct, that is a weight thing and not a powertrain thing-and weight is an advantage when towing heavier, and especially longer trailers.


Also why "this truck is slightly quicker" comparisons are of minimal importance
This was also one of the reasons I felt the RAM was more "planted" than the F150 I test drove. I know Ford did great things removing weight, but the F150 felt....tinny. Im sure the decked out $70K truck was quieter, smoother, etc but I dont have such a budget.

The smooth, planted ride from the RAM is what I wanted, regardless of extra weight. Its a truck, not a sports car.
 

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I found a truck that beat the hemi= My new Ram EcoDiesel. I have one with a hemi, a great truck, but the diesel is averaging very close to 30 mpg, now with almost 5,000 miles. Ordered the GDE tune, can't wait. I didn't buy it to drag race, just to haul my butt around in comfort.
 

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What was interesting in the tests that showed almost all of the competitors beating the Ram from 0-60.
In the 50-70 the Ram was tied with a couple of other models as the fastest model.


I would prefer a quicker 50-70 than 0-60, but that is just me.
 

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I found a truck that beat the hemi= My new Ram EcoDiesel. I have one with a hemi, a great truck, but the diesel is averaging very close to 30 mpg, now with almost 5,000 miles. Ordered the GDE tune, can't wait. I didn't buy it to drag race, just to haul my butt around in comfort.

Didn't you spray nitrous in your old Hemi?
 

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The 3.5 Ecoboost is a great motor but the F150's shitty ride and super expensive price tag are to big a factor to overcome for more power. Not to mention the Hemi sounds better. I drove a 5.0 truck back to back with an Ecoboost truck when I bought an F150 a few years back and I wasn't particularly impressed with the 5.0. There's no way a 5.0 F150 will outrun a Hemi/8spd.3.92 truck as far as I can tell.
 

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The main reason I didn't buy a Ford is the local dealer, Spradley Ford in Pueblo, Co. is about as bad as they come. Too many years of bad experiences with them.
 

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When it comes time to buy a new truck- what will keep you from purchasing a Ford with the 3.5? I drove one and was hoping not to be impressed, but aside from the exhaust sound, it embarrasses my slightly modded 5.7 Ram.
Here's my $0.02 worth.

I went through this last year, when I had to look for a new truck. I'm sure not much has changed since then. In answer to your question, PRICE.

Ford & Chevy are so damned proud of their market place share, they are not willing to budge very much on their prices. Ram gave me a killer deal and for the money, they would (or couldn't) beat the price I got. Neither of the other 2 manufactures would drop their inflated ego prices.

Second, I wanted a truck that would do whatever, whenever I asked it to. Whether it is towing, sloshing through snow & ice, handling off road, or just merging into the traffic here in K.C. area. I am not a street racer, I have no interest in burning up city pavement. But, I have been known to pass a vehicle or two, while driving. The Ram suits my needs, all the way around.

(Also, I didn't like the shape of the Ford hood from the driver's seat. Not that it matters much to others, but it did to me.)

So all in all, it Ram is the best bang for the buck!
 

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When it comes time to buy a new truck- what will keep you from purchasing a Ford with the 3.5? I drove one and was hoping not to be impressed, but aside from the exhaust sound, it embarrasses my slightly modded 5.7 Ram.
Here's my $0.02 worth.

I went through this last year, when I had to look for a new truck. I'm sure not much has changed since then. In answer to your question, PRICE.

Ford & Chevy are so damned proud of their market place share, they are not willing to budge very much on their prices. Ram gave me a killer deal and for the money, they would (or couldn't) beat the price I got. Neither of the other 2 manufactures would drop their inflated ego prices.

Second, I wanted a truck that would do whatever, whenever I asked it to. Whether it is towing, sloshing through snow & ice, handling off road, or just merging into the traffic here in K.C. area. I am not a street racer, I have no interest in burning up city pavement. But, I have been known to pass a vehicle or two, while driving. The Ram suits my needs, all the way around.

(Also, I didn't like the shape of the Ford hood from the driver's seat. Not that it matters much to others, but it did to me.)

So all in all, it Ram is the best bang for the buck!

I totally agree! I’ve bought 4 Rams now, before buying I always look to see what I can get as far as Chevy/GMC and Ford goes. I do a lot of price shopping and comparisons, I’m talking months. The Ram in all 4 situations was $5,000 or more less then a very closely equipped Chevy or Ford. Maybe it’s where I live but I can’t justify spending that much more money when the Rams are just as nice as the other 2 if not better.
 
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