Note: Royal Purple hides their SDS sheets, you have to ask them for the SDS.

 

Amsoil OE oil is Group III conventional base oil, it has "Hydrogenated base oil" listed which is another way of saying hyro-cracked.

Amsoil Signature Series which I believe is supposed to be their top line synthetic also has Group III conventional oil base stock in it. https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/msds/alm.pdf

It lists "Hydrogenated base oil" in section 3 of the SDS.

Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is much harder to read but does have the following in it:

SECTION 3. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Substance / Mixture Chemical nature
: Mixture
: Synthetic base oil and additives.
Highly refined mineral oil.
The highly refined mineral oil contains <3% (w/w) DMSO- extract, according to IP346.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive dilu- ent.

So Pennzoil Ultra Platinum would be considered a Group III oil as well.

 

Hope RL pays you well.

 

Let me guess project farm, first off oil is under pressure in an engine not sitting in a container that this clown freezes in his freezer, I am not impressed with anything he does, oil companies spend millions in R&D and you think this clown who buys a few quarts of different brands of oil all of the sudden knows more than they do.

I don't watch any of his videos because they are not based on scientific facts.

 

That's a big 10-4!!

 

Garc, your super tech oil is another Group III Conventional oil claiming to be synthetic.

http://assets.ctfassets.net/kznjmjn6augk/6LV8UPPRYWCKw4AS2YAAKW/b3aae5a20c4a0058083189efa84ba814/314xxx_EN.pdf

SECTION 3: Composition/information on ingredients

3.1. Substances

Name	Product identifier	%	Classification according to Regulation (EC) No. 1272/2008 [CLP]
Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated heavy paraffinic	(CAS-No.) 64742-54-7 (EC-No.) 265-157-1 (EC Index-No.) 649-467-00-8 (REACH-no) 01-2119484627-25	50 - 80	Asp. Tox. 1, H304
Mineral oil *

 

Pour Point Analysis for the Viscosity Measurements of Oils

The pour point of an oil is an essential property that determines how it will flow at a given temperature.

www.azom.com

A small sample of the link.

Analyzing the Pour Point of An Oil
There are a range of manual and automatic industry-adopted methods that are used to measure the pour point of an oil, which are upheld and approved by the international standards organisation, ASTM International. For measuring the pour point of petroleum-based oils, the standard tests are ASTM D97 and ASTM D5949. For crude oils, the standard test is ASTM D5853.

ASTM D97
ASTM D97 is a manual method used to determine the pour point of any petroleum-based oil. In this method, the oil sample is placed into a vessel and pre-heated, and this is followed by a cooling stage so that the oil is at a temperature of 9 °C (48.2 °F) above its expected pour point. This enables the formation of paraffin wax crystals.

The sample is then inspected at this point and at every 3 °C (37.4 °F) intervals thereafter. The inspection takes the form of removing the vessel from the cooling apparatus and tilting it to see if there is any surface movement from the oil. 3 °C (37.4 °F) is added to the temperature point at which the oil doesn’t flow any more (as this is the last flowable point), and this is the oil’s pour point. This approach does mean that the pour point is a slight approximation, but with a maximum error of only 3 °C (37.4 °F).

However, the D97 method does have some drawbacks, in that it relies on human expertise, there is often a poor precision and reproducibility, it is a time-consuming process, and a large amount of sample is required to perform the pour point tests.

ASTM D5949
The ASTM D5949 method relies on the same principles as the D97 method, with the main difference being that it is an automated process, not manual. The automation of the apparatus provides a faster, more reliable, and more accurate pour point measurement and negates the possibility of human error. It also requires a much smaller sample than the manual D97 method and can usually provide a measurement at four times the speed.

This automated method applies a controlled burst of nitrogen gas onto the surface of an oil sample during cooling, and an optical device is used to measure any changes at the oil’s surface. The controlled cooling enables more accurate pour point values to be obtained and can be used without the need for any external refrigeration units or temperature baths

 

You continuously spew sales pitches and lab specs that mean nothing to these consumers.

All these people want to know is why they should spend more for maintenance on their point A to B light towing vehicle.

Find me this capability study

Oils ABCD were used in four of the same engine with exact tolerances between them all.

Oil A lasted 150k miles before XYZ component failure(wear item) deeming it underperforming.

Oil B went 200k miles,

and so forth...
Then I’ll spend $8 or whatever for your “magic potion”

Oh yeah, and do 31 more tests to be 99.7 percent certain and meet automotive 3-sigma.

 

Garc if you want to search out the cheapest dime store oil to run in your engines you are free to do so, there are many others who have no issue spending more money to take care of their transportation that they paid tens of thousands of dollars for. So enjoy your $0.99 cent a quart oil.

The reason for posting the standards of how to do a pour test was to show that people with a video camera and a YouTube account are not as smart as they think they are just because they can buy a few different brands of oil and put them in their freezer and then think they have shown you the pour point of oils, they are not even close to how the testing is done on how manufactures have to conduct an oils pour point.

 

For those who want to run a synthetic here is some more information:

In Europe, only Groups IV and V are classified as synthetics, whereas in North America, Groups III, IV and V are described as synthetic lubricants. Several petrochemical companies have developed processes involving catalytic conversion of crude oil base stock under high pressure and temperature in the presence of hydrogen to form very high-quality mineral lubricants. These oils, which are known as Group III base oils, are so highly refined that their properties almost match that of the Group IV synthetics. Owing to this, these Group III base oils are sometimes counted under the category of synthetic lubricants in North America.

____

Most notably Germany is the country that prohibits calling Group III conventional oil synthetic, they do not allow it because even after hydro-cracking Group III oil it is still conventional oil.

It was the Better Business Bureau's National Advertising Division (NAD) that made the decision that a Group III conventional oil could be called synthetic in America. That decision resulted from Mobils complaint they filed with NAD against Castrol who started using Group III Conventional oil and labeling it as synthetic.

Molecules of conventional Group III oil: 00oooOOo0Ooo00OOooo0oO

Molecules of Group IV & Group V synthetic oil: OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

The smaller molecules of conventional oil breakdown faster which is what is called shear, in a Group IV and Group V synthetic oil all the molecules are the same and that is why a synthetic oil out performs conventional oils.

 

Here is link to an article the only thing I disagree with them on is they are calling Group III a synthetic oil:

http://www.worldpac.com/pdfs/motul_SYNINAMcar08_v1.2-Colour.pdf

Here is a small portion of the article:

MOTUL – SYNTHETICS IN USA
2
c) SyntheticGROUP5(Esters)
GROUP 5 (Diester, POLYMER ESTER, Polyolesters, polyesters and COMPLEX) Motul® uses esters in many of its products.

• ESTERS ARE MOSTLY MADE OF VEGETABLES, minerals and animal fatty acids. Motul’s® esters contain a lot of coconut and veggie derivatives.
• Esters are much more expensive because the ingredients all have to be collected from natural RENEWABLE resources and synthesized (a very expensive process) in smaller quantities.
• Advantages of the G5 (Esters): esters have all the advantages of a PAO but more of them.

o ESTERS CAN HANDLE HEAT BETTER THAN PAO’s
o WHEN BURNED, ESTERS LEAVE FAR LESS (COKING) DEPOSITS.
o ESTERS ARE POLAR/STATIC types of OILS : ESTERS are ATTRACTED TO METAL PARTS
WITH AN ELECTRO-CHEMICAL BOND. THIS MEANS NO MORE METAL TO METAL START UPS. This also means that A FILM IS THERE BEFORE the oil pressure light goes out PREVENTING PREMATURE WEAR of high-stressed parts like cam lobes. THE FILM CREATED IS up to 5 TIMES STRONGER THAN PETROLEUM OIL.
THE NUMBER 1 REASON TO RUN AN ESTER SYNTHETIC OIL is BOND. The Electro-chemical bond is made because the ESTER MOLECULE IS POLAR! Sort of like a refrigerator magnet! It is attracted to metal and it sticks.
THE PAO MOLECULES ARE NEUTRAL and act like a piece of plastic placed on the Frig. They just fall off. FYI, all commercial jet planes use an ester synthetic of some type and not a PAO! You need to run an ester of some sort for maximum protection!

 

Here is one more article on Synthetic oil and its benefits over conventional oils: https://www.waynesgarage.com/tips/more-tip/synthetic-oils

 

For diesel engines the additive mix is what is important and not the base stock. That is why I used Pennzoil Long Life or Valvoline Premium Blue in my diesel truck (Redline would have been as good but a lot more expensive, and stayed away from Amsoil which has one the worst additive mixes on the market.

With gas engines any motor oil that meets the API specifications (API SP), which you can check on their website, will perform as well as any other oil that meets their specs. The only decision is whether to buy a synthetic blend or a pure synthetic and that depends largely on the viscosity range recommended for your engine. A 0W-XX is going to be a synthetic.

I go to a quick lube place but pay more to get the oil out of the plastic containers as I do not trust the bulk oil they pump through their hoses. Bulk oil can be completely different than what is stated on the delivery slip and may not even be the correct viscosity.

 

Why are they called synthetic when they’re made from coconut and other vegetable based products? Nothing in that seems synthetic to me; just plant based rather than animal based oils.

 

Everything is made from something, yes? How much processing is done to the "something" is what creates the definition of synthetic. There was a squabble between Mobil & Castrol that set this off. Newer refining methods were able to hydrocrack some crude oil feed stocks, which are then hydrotreated (saturated) to create "new synthetic" molecules. Ruling was that marketers could call this a synthetic base stock oil because of all the processing done to make it. API now identifies as "Group III".

Before that, synthetic base stock oil was manufactured by reacting ethylene gas (from crude oil) into a near-perfect hydrocarbon chain. These were always called synthetics. API now identifies these as "Group IV".

 

The proof is in the pudding. I have always done oil tests with Blackstone Labs. I use Rotella T6 5W40 in my Ecodiesel. Here is my last test done at 90,000 miles.I'm not putting down any other oil, just haven't seen better results from other Ecodiesel trucks using other more expensive oils.

 

You will find lots of people defending the BBB National Advertising Division's (NAD) ruling in favor of Castrol who started this entire fiasco of labeling Group III oil as synthetic, yes you read that right a bunch of people from the BBB's National Advertising Division are the ones who decided conventional oil could be called synthetic. The API cowered and went along with it and consumers have been duped ever since.

In Europe (Germany) you can not call a Group III conventional oil synthetic, in order to call your oil synthetic it has to be a Group IV PAO and or Group V Ester as both Group IV PAO and Group V Ester oils are true synthetic oils.

 

Hydro-Cracking removes more of the contamination from conventional oil but the molecules are all still different sizes and will break down at different rates with the smaller molecules shearing fastest, when a oil shears it loses viscosity.

Hydro-Cracking conventional oil does not create new molecules that are uniform in shape and size.

Group IV PAO and Group V Ester are manufactured and because of that every molecule is pure and identical.

Notice in the two examples that the Group III conventional passed off as synthetic oil the larger molecules are doing the lions share of the work and the smaller molecules will get sheared and the Group III viscosity will degrade.

Synthetic oil Group IV PAO and Group V Ester, notice how every molecule is the same and each molecule is pure/clean. The load on the same bearing surface is supported equally by every molecule, this is why synthetic oil is superior to conventional oils.

Here is an example of synthetic Group IV PAO & Group V Ester oil vs conventional Group III oil:

 

The only larger Group IV Base Oil maker I'm aware of any longer is Amsoil (Signature Series). Everybody else went to catalytic cracking and hydrotreating (Group III Base Oil).

The boutique shops are set up for jobbers and truck depots, not retail consumers.

 

So after reading all this....it is a great read but can anyone put up a list of oil brands that are group IV or Group V for the simple people like me

 

The only Group IV I'm aware of is Amsoil Signature Series. The only Group V I'm aware of is Red Line.
IMO, Pennzoil (Shell) Ultra Platinum is officially Group III, but close to Group IV. It performs better for me than other Group III's (such as Mobil 1, which consumes substantial oil in all my engines).

 

We all drive differently. We all live in different parts of the country. We all have different outside stresses on our vehicles like heat, dust, long idle times etc, that all plays a major role in oil life.

If the best oil and maintenance is you're priority, why wouldn't you send the oil YOU decide to be the best, to be tested? Oil has come a long way. A great deal of it is opinion and the truth is... many brands are made at the same place and the label is just different. If you really want to know what is correct for you, send it off the Blackstone labs and pay the small additional charge so they will test the TOTAL BASE NUMBER and that will give you an accurate and definitive answer on what oil is best for you.

I run SuperTech Full Synthetic from Walmart and swap the filter out at 5k miles and a full change before 10k miles. And the oil test always comes back perfect with plenty of life left to run the oil past the 10k miles mark. I'm not interested in the class of the oil or name so much as I am the performance and protection, but, to each their own.

 

Amsoil does not refine any oil they buy all their base stocks just like Redline and Royal Purple do. But Royal Purple and Redline are now owned by major companies so they may actually be able to get their base stocks From their parent company now, I am not sure if Phillips 66 who now owns Redline makes Group V Ester base stocks or not so Redline may still be purchasing their base stock from another supplier.

Most Royal Purple oils after their buy out several years ago went from true Group IV PAO and Group V Ester base stocks to Group III Conventional hyrdo-cracked base stocks, you have to step up to Royal Purple HPS series of oil to get the Group IV PAI /Group V Ester oil.

 

People are free to choose any oil they want, I have always been curious as to why someone will spend anywhere from $30,000 dollars to over $70,000 dollars for a vehicle then shop for the cheapest oil they can find to run in it. That just never has made any sense to me.

I equate it to a restaurant trying to buy all their kitchen equipment from Walmart, there is a reason restaurants buy high quality stainless steel pots and pans, knifes and utensils and have high quality grills and friers, they can't afford for their equipment to break down all the time.

Black Stone some time ago made a statement that their samples showed conventional oil to be just as good as synthetic oils, but I don't agree with their statement for one major reason, when ever I send in an oil sample they always say that my sample is being compared with samples that were run for far shorter periods. Example I run a full say 4,000 mile oil change per the manual for my Yamaha but the samples they are comparing it to are only run for an average of say 2,800 miles or 1,200 miles less and my synthetic sample is beating all the universal averages sometimes by several parts per million. My vehicle samples are an even bigger spread where I am running the full oil change interval which can be from 8,000 to 10,000 miles depending on the vehicle and again the samples being compared are always an average in the 3,000 to only 4,000 miles range for their oil changes.

So I am running the full oil change cycle of 8,000 to 10,000 miles and my samples are meeting or beating samples that are only run between 3,000 to 4,000 miles, if you were to extrapolate the wear numbers on those shorter oil samples to the 8,000 to 10,000 miles their wear numbers will only go up as the mileage increases.

Many of my oil change samples wear numbers will be just above the universal averages but will have either twice the mileage or over twice the mileage of the universal average people are running their oil for and my wear numbers are actually better when you compare to how long the oil was run for.

Here is an example of what I am talking about from my Yamaha motorcycle which is a shared sump system, the engine, primary and transmission all use the same oil and the primary and transmission being gear driven is hard on oil shearing it.

I run Redline 10w-40 motorcycle oil in my Yamaha Star Venture Transcontinental and I am now running 8,000 mile oil change intervals the manual calls for 4,000 mile oil change intervals. The Black Stone average is only 2,800 miles when people are changing the oil. My last oil change resulted in the following wear numbers compared to the shorter universal average wear numbers:

Aluminum 3 parts per million / universal average 7 parts per million

Iron 7 parts per million / universal average 11 parts per million

Copper 2 parts per million / universal average 6 parts per million

Lead 0 parts per million / universal average 1 parts per million

So I ran my oil 5,200 miles longer than the universal average me 8,000 miles universal average 2,800 miles and my wear numbers were better than the shorter runs. I will stick with the Redline thank you.