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Thinking of the switch

4.3K views 20 replies 15 participants last post by  cnp  
#1 ·
so i have been thinking on doing the switch from the 5.7 hemi to 6.7 cummins i want a 2500 crew or mega cab... we pull a 6k travel trailer also so i figure the 2500 would be good for that.. and thoughts and opinions for a guys new to the diesel world
 
#2 ·
If you do your own oil and fuel filter changes I would say don't hesitate -- the diesel will pay for itself quicker than just fuel savings while towing (to offset higher price at pump). If you don't do your own filter changes... tack on about $400+ / year for your dealer to do it ($150ish DIY). 2019 2500 Cummins is my 2nd diesel (first '04 F-250 6.0 PS) -- had 3 Ford trucks since 1994 or so (after a Dodge buy-back of a 'lemon') -- no issues outside of regular maintenance on my Fords (after 6.0 diesel was 'deleted'). Just hoping this Ram makes it through warranty (and stops having recalls) so I can 'delete' it and enjoy the diesel HP & torque it should have out of the factory. Easily got 20mpg + out of '04 Powerstroke -- I will live with 17ish mpg on the Cummins through the warranty period. Assuming it last that long #Recalls

Cummins a great motor, though. And I got a killer deal in Nov 2019 (about $18k below sticker OTD) If I could just mate it to an Allison transmission and Ford Tremor chassis / suspension. Hindsight -- should have went with Ram 3500 with better tranny, more HP/Q and rear air suspension. Might not be needed to tow / haul for 6k trailer +. But I rarely tow much over 12k, and should have stepped up. Go big or go home :) My 2 cents.
 
#4 · (Edited)
The problem with the 2500 and diesel is lack of payload. It will not pull most 5th wheels as the pin weight will exceed your payload capacity. The new Diesels with DEF, the regen cycles, the higher cost of fuel in most areas and the higher maintenance cost made me stay with the 6.4L in the 2500. If you put on lots and lots of miles you could recoup your extra costs, I don't, my '16 has 45000 miles and has been in Alaska on one trip and San Diego on another we're based near Boston
 
#5 ·
You do not need the power and the diesel engine will cost you dearly in initial cost, maintenance, servicing, and repairs. I have a diesel 2500 and fortunately I have only had to replace the two batteries twice, have the fuel filter replaced twice, oil changed and chassis lubed. With the diesel engine there are two batteries, the crankcase takes twice as much oil, oil change intervals are shorter as is the fuel filter change interval (diesel is a very dirty fuel). I pay as much for diesel as for premium gas so no big savings at the pumps. I get about 30% more mpg than with a gas engine but fuel is the least expensive part of owning a pickup.

A fuel injector repair job will cost around $5,000 and that is more than a complete rebuild of a gas engine. The emissions controls are also additional points of failure. I have only had one NOx sensor replaced so far but it was a $700 part. Check the cost for a new turbo as these are another point of failure.

I was routinely hauling 4,000 lbs and towing 13,000 lbs in the mountains and the diesel engine provided more range on a full tank of fuel and it provided more torque for pulling a steep grade and being able to safely pass big rigs crawling up to a high pass and best of all was the control going down steep grades with the exhaust brake keeping the speed down with far less demand on the brakes.

To get a 2500 diesel pickup to tow a 6,000 lb. trailer is like buying a Hummer to safely carry groceries back from the supermarket.
 
#7 ·
We purchased a Ram Bighorn 3500 with the 6.7 liter diesel. Right now we are pulling a Solitude 390. Our towing weight is right at 15,800 lbs. The truck never shies away from the pull. If we stay out of the mountains the truck gets around 15 to 18 mpg. By the way, we are full time rvers and we use a discount card through TDS logistics that saves us quite a bit at the pump at TA Fuel centers. We also get discounts at other major truck stops.
I don't believe you could go wrong with the Ram 3500. We see a lot of them in the campgrounds. Good travels.
 
#8 ·
I’ve had Fords and Dodge / Rams. In 2011 I LUCKLY dumped my last Ford. and changed over, DAM GLAD I DID.,!!! My 11 has been cross country 4 or 5 times pulling 20k
We just purchased a 4500lb travel trailer, so I purchased a leftover 2018 Ram 2500 ( 2w/d ) LOVE IT.,! 21mpg right off the trailer. Just under 19 pulling the trailer in the North East. JUST DO IT.,!! I’ve had 06 and 07’s with OVER 465000 miles, YES, 1/2 MILLION Miles and still running hard ( 5.9 not the 6.7 )
But all in all, they are GREAT PIECES
 
#9 ·
If finances are important for you, do the math on the much higher capital cost of the diesel compared to the 6.4L gas. Then see if the mileage will pay for itself. My last calculation some years back estimated a 200,000 mile or so break even point, not fast enough for me. I pull a utility trailer part time in the summer, app. 6,000 lbs. loaded.

My mileage drops to 12 mpg when towing. Between 16-18 mpg with no load. I wouldn't own a diesel again - too expensive, too much complexity, too many emissions control systems. I owned the original 6BT5.9 Cummins.
 
#10 ·
Don’t worry about DEF, starting with 2013 when DEF was added, the trucks do regeneration less often then pre DEF. My 13 2500 averages 3200 miles per 2.5 gal jug of DEF over 145,000 miles. I did a trip towing a 40’ 16,000 lb 5th wheel with my 17 3500 DRW, HO engine 4:10 gears. 1900 mile trip plus couple hundred miles non towing. Did the trip with 1 tank (5.5 gal) of DEF.
 
#11 ·
My first diesel was a 2004 single wheel 3500 5.9 and I pulled a 40 foot toy box with no problems. I now have a 2017 2500 6.7 4x4 limited mega cab and I love it and to me it rides a lot smother than the 3500. I now pull a 40 foot 5th wheel travel trailer with no problems. Sure you will pay more for the diesel, but to me it is worth it. You go 15,000 miles between oil and fuel filter changes. I bought the two diesel (it has 2 diesel filters) filters from the dealership and almost fainted at the cost. But since then I know what they look like and you can buy them a lot cheaper on the internet. If you are able to, you will save yourself a lot of money doing it yourself. I am 72 and I can do it so if you have the space to do it, you ought to be able to do it. Also, when you are towing, you can use the exhaust break (that feature you will love), it will help save your vehicle breaks. Something the 6.4 doesn't have. The bottom line is if any of the new trucks have a major problem, diesel or gas, it will be expensive. So now you have the pros and cons and it is your money, so get what you want. Just find a dealership that will work with you. As an example, in August of 2017 (I don't buy used) I found the truck that I wanted in Fort Worth (about 200 miles from me). I sent them pictures of my 2011 1500 4x4. The 2017 listed for $ 74,something. The dealership knocked $10,000 off. The dealership gave me $26,000 for my 2011. So I paid around $38,000 for my new 2017 2500 6.7 4x4 limited mega cab. One more thing, on the 5.9 it was not a 4x4 and on the highway not pulling anything, it got 26 mpg. On my 6.7 4x4 on the highway not pulling anything the best that it has got is around 21 mpg. So if you don't need the 4x4, don't get it. Good luck with whatever you decided to buy.
 
#12 ·
If I were you I would buy a 2500 with a 6.4 hemi. I have a 2014, and I live in east TN. Lots of hills and mountains around here.It will tow 8,000 lbs. around like its nothing. Plus when you add in the savings from not buying a deisel around $10,000 it makes sense. On top of that new deisel engines have alot of problems with the Def system. I'm sure there are those that will argue about that but all deisel engines with def systems are garbage. Thats why its so popular to delete it, which is illegal in states with emission inspections. Do what you will,but you Do Not need a deisel to tow 6,000 pounds.
 
#13 ·
It actually is illegal in every state do tamper with emissions, not only in those that do the emission testing but all the states.
And another correction, DEF is not a problem, EGR is. Earlier emission systems only used EGR and DPF, they later advanced to add DEF into the mix. While some DEF were faulty, they did not cause engine issues. While initially to keep the emissions in check, systems used a lot of EGR and very little DEF, in the later years it shifted towards little EGR and more DEF. The later years systems have yet to be proven unreliable but a little EGR use is reassuring.
Each to their own. My camping trailer is not even a 4000lbs but I've got a 2019 3500 CTD truck. It's better to have more truck than not enough, and you never know how the future turns up. With a 3500 CTD I hopefully won't need to upgrade the truck if my needs change.
 
#14 ·
I had always hated the smell of diesel exhaust, but with the DEF, that smell is not there and I have not had any problems with it (knock on wood). To each their own. Like any vehicle, you have to keep up with the maintenance. So you have to decide what you want, you need to decide for yourself and not let the salesman decide for you. The best way to find what you are looking for, is to pick how far you are willing to drive for it. Then checkout the dealers in that range and check their inventory. Then see if they are willing to deal. If not go to the next dealer. Just because you buy ( just say 100 miles from you) the dealer close to you will take care of any recalls or service that you need. The dealer close to me that I do a lot of business with (Brenham, Texas) didn't have my 2017 that I wanted, so I went to Fort Worth and got it. The dealership in Brenham has treated it like I had bought it from them. Also, I believe that it is around $8,000 more for a diesel not $10,000. But with the diesel, you get a lot more engine. Also, I believe that the diesel last a lot longer than a gas engine. I will say it again, if you go with the diesel, you will really like the exhaust break when you are towing. Something the 6.4 doesn't have.
 
#18 ·
Because a new truck Never Ever breaks down. See ya later.
Since you're being sarcastic, I'll quote what I said in my 1st reply to you:
"The later years systems have yet to be proven unreliable but a little EGR use is reassuring."
I take it you've never heard of "EGR-less tuning" so maybe you need to do some reading before you start arguing on the subject you know little about.
 
#20 ·
If you need a diesel then you really need a 3500 for the ability to handle the pin weight of a trailer that heavy. The additional GCWR of a diesel 2500 is essentially useless because of the lower payload compared to a gas 2500.

The diesel engine is about a $10,000 upgrade, and with the newer emissions compliant diesels running regens to clear out the DPF the fuel efficiency gap between diesel in gas is so small that it will take hundreds of thousands of towing miles to make up the difference. In fact, since diesel is usually more expensive than gas, its basically a wash.

Diesels have longer oil change intervals but the oil changes are more expensive. Call that a wash too.

Gas engines don't have fuel folters to replace. Diesels are more flexible as to the type of fuel the engine can use, but they are more sensitive to the quality of the fuel used.

The additional several hundred lbs over the front axle will wear out your tires and front suspension components faster in a diesel as well.

There's not really an argument to be made that diesels have a lower cost of ownership over a long period of time, unless you are talking past 300,000 miles or more, and most people anymore don't even keep vehicles that long.

The OP is talking about a 6,000lb trailer. He doesn't even need an HD truck for that, most any 1500 will pull it.
 
#21 ·
Bbouch - are you concerned about the 5.7 hemi and your trailer? I've been pulling 6000 lb travel trailer, 650 lbs tongue weight, over 10,000 miles past 2 years with my 2011 1500 5.7l hemi just fine (and 6 spd tranny, 3.55 gears, so not ideal), including the Rockies, incl Ike 'gauntlet'. Up mountain passes, no more than 3500 rpm at 50-55mph, all temps stable, down the long passes in 4th gear with minimal touching of brakes. Yes, the Cummins will do the same pass at 1800 rpm, and you can fly 70mph....and beat me by several minutes to the top.
I have a wonderful weight distribution and sway hitch - , truck and trailer all level, and comfortable when big rigs pass me and with cross winds to 30 mph.
Unless you are looking to grow into larger/heavier trailers down the road, you technically are in good shape with room to spare.