Depends on the manufacture and the method they designed, some just keep track of the miles driven, others will track idle time highway speed/city speed and use a program to determine and contrary to some's belief there are none that analyze the oil like lab does.

 

Here is an example from my ecodiesel it has a 10,000 mile oil change interval, and if you track the oil change graphic on the dash it continues to count down by percentage until it reaches 0% at which point I am at 10,000 miles, that tells me the ecodiesel is using a simple mileage counter that converts the mileage traveled to percentage of oil life left.

I use Redline 15w-40 Diesel Group V Ester synthetic oil in my ecodiesel and I use K&N Performance Gold HP07042 oil filter.

 

Here is an example from my ecodiesel it has a 10,000 mile oil change interval, and if you track the oil change graphic on the dash it continues to count down by percentage until it reaches 0% at which point I am at 10,000 miles, that tells me the ecodiesel is using a simple mileage counter that converts the mileage traveled to percentage of oil life left.

I use Redline 15w-40 Diesel Group V Ester synthetic oil in my ecodiesel and I use K&N Performance Gold HP07042 oil filter.

My "15" ecodiesel didn't go by straight mileage, I used to get a lot of idling time and it certainly effected the oil monitor.
I always tried to change the oil around 5000 miles and I would be into the 20% range, around 26-27% often.
One time it was still showing 46% at 5000 miles but that was a summer when I made a couple trips and racked up a lot of highway miles for me.

 

Our 6.4 seems to use mostly mileage as the basis for calculating "oil life", where driving 6000 miles, give or take, equates to "using up" 100% of the oil life. (The owner's manual suggests an oil change interval of "no more than 8000 miles")
But it's not totally precise, so I do suspect there's an algorithm at work that does take idle time and "severe duty" (perhaps logging time/rpm/mph data to extract some kind of measure of how hard the engine is working - that's a total guess though) into account.
The % of oil life remaining does seem to decrease slightly more rapidly when we're hauling our Arctic Fox in-bed camper than it does when driving unladen.
Since we don't drive in conditions which impose much idle time, the difference, I'll assume, relates to some data the system is using to represent "severe duty".
The difference is subtle though, and I can't prove it's not my imagination.

 

What you're saying about the rpm/mph etc is what I've been told also.And it's what I believe.But I change my oil regardless at around 4500 miles,because I can,and am also hardheaded about modern oci.

 

I don't let my ecodiesel idle for extended periods because idling for an extended period is hard on a Diesel engine. Extended idling is also hard on a gas engine as well.

So if your oil change monitor was showing a lower percentage than maybe it is also tied in with an algorithm that tracks idle time as well as mileage.

My ecodiesel is 60% city and 40% highway driving and my oil change monitor has tracked with the mileage accurately, I just changed the oil 1,000 miles ago and when the oil change monitor got to 0% the mileage was 10,000 miles on that oil change so my combination of city/highway along with not letting the ecodiesel idle excessively works well. My owners manual for my 2019 Ram 1500 Classic ecodiesel says the oil change interval is 10,000 miles.

I run Redline 15w-40 Group V Ester synthetic Diesel oil because of Group V Ester synthetic oils ability to withstand heat better than conventional Group III oils labeled as synthetics and Group IV PAO synthetic oils. The Group V Ester will keep the engine clean and the oil passages open and flowing because Group V Ester synthetic oils are known for their superior cleaning ability.

That is why when someone changes over to a Group V Ester based synthetic oil and they do a used oil analysis on that first change over it scares them, the Group V Ester synthetic is cleaning out all of the deposits and varnish build up other lessor oils leave behind, so they see the lab report and they bash the Group V Esther synthetic oil wrongly saying it is no good when what is really happening is the Group V Ester synthetic oil is cleaning out the internals of the engine.

 

Almost all of my driving is rural roads and small town. Lots of hills so lots of loaded and coasting time.
I'm often in and out of my truck frequently during the day so when it's cold out it idles, in the summer when it's hot the AC is on so it idles.
I never had any issues with it idling. I only got the message to drive at highways speeds twice in 96,000 miles.
I was real leery of the 5W-30 oil spec and was glad when it switched to 5w-40 which I happened to have on hand for my tractors.

 

Just to expand a little on ecodiesel engine failures there are two things that pop up as contributing to those lower end bearing failures, the first was FCA acknowledging that 5w-30 oil weight was the wrong spec because the 30 weight oils film strength was not strong enough to protect the bearings. FCA changed the spec to 5w-40 because a 40 weight oil has a stronger film strength and will protect the bearings where the 30 weight oils film strength failed. Remember also the first number is only a winter number and not a weight, in other words the oil is not a 5 weight that turns into a 30 weight or 40 weight, what it means is that 40 weight oil will pour like a 5 weight oil when cold down to a specified temperature. Redline 15w-40 Diesel Group V Ester synthetic oil is rated to flow in temperatures down to minus 49 degrees.

The second thing is from research of some of the tear downs the oil passages were restricted and or clogged which would starve the bearings for oil.

This is why purchasing a quality true full synthetic Group IV PAO or Group V Ester oil is so important on many engines, yes even gas engines can build up sludge and deposits.

With the ecodiesel the few extra dollars I spend using Redline 15w-40 Group V Ester synthetic oil is really just cheap insurance that protects the ecodiesel internally.

One other thing is don't get caught up in the nonsense you better use this weight or else and you better have the manufactures material standard number printed on the bottle of oil or else BS. When the ecodiesel first came out and you can go to any of the forums on the ecodiesel and you will see people posting you better use 5w-30 with the MOPAR material standard number such and such on the bottle or else, well come to find out 5w-30 was the wrong oil right from the manufacture for the ecodiesel, while some survived running the 5w-30 many did not and lost the bottom end bearings so FCA changed the oil spec to 5w-40 because as I already said the 40 weights film strength protects the bottom end bearings where the 30 weights film strength was not strong enough.

You can go to any manufacture forum site and you will see this you better use this oil or else nonsense on all the brands and forums.

The reason I don't put much stock into the material standard as the end all be all and you better use an oil with it printed on the bottle or else is because you can go into any store pick up a bottle of oil and some will list 3 or 4 manufactures material stand number on them while another brand may list as many as 7 or 8 manufactures material standards on their bottle of oil. Well a 1.5 turbo charged engine is not the same as a naturally aspirated V-6 engine and neither is the same as a big cubic inch V-8 engine.

Further in order to print the material standard on the bottle the oil manufacture has to pay a fee for every bottle of oil sold to the manufacture similar to how the oil companies have to pay a fee to the API for every bottle of oil sold in order to print the API symbol on the bottle of oil.

Here is a little fact that none of the you better use this oil or else crowd never want to discuss and that is the API spec is the one that has to be met, so none of the manufactures with their own material standard spec can alter the formula of the oil so that it falls out of compliance with the API spec or that oil can no longer carry the API symbol on the bottle.

That is why the owners manuals all say they suggest you use an oil with their material standard and the API standard is mandatory. It costs a lot of money to carry that API symbol on a bottle of oil and when you have to pay the manufacture as well it just drive up the cost even more. That is why what is called boutique oils do not carry the API symbol, while their oil will pass the API certification the cost is so high that it is cost prohibitive for the smaller boutique oil companies to pay for the API symbol as it costs upward of over $600,000 thousand dollars each time you certify the oil for the API symbol and you have to do this every few years so it is an on going cost that the smaller companies can't afford. Now add in the cost of paying to print the manufacture material standard number on the bottle and the cost just keep going up.

Another thing that keeps some of the superior oils from getting the API symbol is the API keeps removing more and more additives and some oils will contain more of a certain additive than is allowed under the API spec. ZDDP is one such additive that has been lowered. ZDDP is beneficial to internal components like bearing surfaces and cam lobes/flat tappet lifters, as the oil come up to operating temperature the ZDDP will leave a sacrificial protective coating on these surfaces so that when you cold start or hot start for that matter an engine the bearing surfaces, cam and lifter surfaces are protected for the first few seconds before the oil pressure builds up to create an oil film between the bearing and crankshaft surface, cam bearing and lobe surfaces and lifter surface.

That is why so many engines that use flat tappet cams lost the cam lobes when the API changed the ZDDP spec removing much of it from the oils. There are still engines sold today that use a flat tappet cam, Yamaha does in their Star Venture touring motorcycle V-Twin engine.

In the end the choice is always yours and it reminds me of the old Fram oil filter commercial when I was growing up, you can pay me now or you can pay me later as the add first showed an oil filter promoting changing the oil then showed an engine that needed to be rebuilt on the pay me later half.

 

Just to expand a little on ecodiesel engine failures there are two things that pop up as contributing to those lower end bearing failures, the first was FCA acknowledging that 5w-30 oil weight was the wrong spec because the 30 weight oils film strength was not strong enough to protect the bearings. FCA changed the spec to 5w-40 because a 40 weight oil has a stronger film strength and will protect the bearings where the 30 weight oils film strength failed. Remember also the first number is only a winter number and not a weight, in other words the oil is not a 5 weight that turns into a 30 weight or 40 weight, what it means is that 40 weight oil will pour like a 5 weight oil when cold down to a specified temperature. Redline 15w-40 Diesel Group V Ester synthetic oil is rated to flow in temperatures down to minus 49 degrees.

The second thing is from research of some of the tear downs the oil passages were restricted and or clogged which would starve the bearings for oil.

This is why purchasing a quality true full synthetic Group IV PAO or Group V Ester oil is so important on many engines, yes even gas engines can build up sludge and deposits.

With the ecodiesel the few extra dollars I spend using Redline 15w-40 Group V Ester synthetic oil is really just cheap insurance that protects the ecodiesel internally.

One other thing is don't get caught up in the nonsense you better use this weight or else and you better have the manufactures material standard number printed on the bottle of oil or else BS. When the ecodiesel first came out and you can go to any of the forums on the ecodiesel and you will see people posting you better use 5w-30 with the MOPAR material standard number such and such on the bottle or else, well come to find out 5w-30 was the wrong oil right from the manufacture for the ecodiesel, while some survived running the 5w-30 many did not and lost the bottom end bearings so FCA changed the oil spec to 5w-40 because as I already said the 40 weights film strength protects the bottom end bearings where the 30 weights film strength was not strong enough.

You can go to any manufacture forum site and you will see this you better use this oil or else nonsense on all the brands and forums.

The reason I don't put much stock into the material standard as the end all be all and you better use an oil with it printed on the bottle or else is because you can go into any store pick up a bottle of oil and some will list 3 or 4 manufactures material stand number on them while another brand may list as many as 7 or 8 manufactures material standards on their bottle of oil. Well a 1.5 turbo charged engine is not the same as a naturally aspirated V-6 engine and neither is the same as a big cubic inch V-8 engine.

Further in order to print the material standard on the bottle the oil manufacture has to pay a fee for every bottle of oil sold to the manufacture similar to how the oil companies have to pay a fee to the API for every bottle of oil sold in order to print the API symbol on the bottle of oil.

Here is a little fact that none of the you better use this oil or else crowd never want to discuss and that is the API spec is the one that has to be met, so none of the manufactures with their own material standard spec can alter the formula of the oil so that it falls out of compliance with the API spec or that oil can no longer carry the API symbol on the bottle.

That is why the owners manuals all say they suggest you use an oil with their material standard and the API standard is mandatory. It costs a lot of money to carry that API symbol on a bottle of oil and when you have to pay the manufacture as well it just drive up the cost even more. That is why what is called boutique oils do not carry the API symbol, while their oil will pass the API certification the cost is so high that it is cost prohibitive for the smaller boutique oil companies to pay for the API symbol as it costs upward of over $600,000 thousand dollars each time you certify the oil for the API symbol and you have to do this every few years so it is an on going cost that the smaller companies can't afford. Now add in the cost of paying to print the manufacture material standard number on the bottle and the cost just keep going up.

Another thing that keeps some of the superior oils from getting the API symbol is the API keeps removing more and more additives and some oils will contain more of a certain additive than is allowed under the API spec. ZDDP is one such additive that has been lowered. ZDDP is beneficial to internal components like bearing surfaces and cam lobes/flat tappet lifters, as the oil come up to operating temperature the ZDDP will leave a sacrificial protective coating on these surfaces so that when you cold start or hot start for that matter an engine the beari surface, cam bearing and lobe surfaces and lifter surface.

That is why so many enlost the cam lobes when the API changed the ZDDP spec removing much of it from the oils. There are still engines sold today that use a flat tappet cam, Yamaha does in their Star Venture touring motorcycle V-Twin engine.iiiii

In the end the choice is always yours and it reminds me of the old Fram oil filter commercial when I was growing up, you can pay me now or you can pay me later as the add first i I

 

What is untrue about what I posted? It is a fact that FCA changed the spec of the oil for the ecodiesel from 5w-30 to 5w-40 because the 30 weight oil did not have the film strength to protect the bottom end bearings and the 40 weight oil does have the film strength to protect the bottom end bearings.

Also some teardown's have found plugged oil passages, that happens from varnish forming and oil coking which restricts the flow of oil to bearings from running these conventional Group III oils labeled as synthetic.

It is also a known fact that Group V Ester synthetic oils have superior cleaning ability and they can withstand higher heat than conventional Group III oil labeled as synthetic and Group IV PAO synthetic. The only oil that will work in a jet turbine engine is Group V Ester based oil due to high heat produced. A conventional Group III labeled as a synthetic oil will fail in a Jet Turbine as will a Group IV PAO synthetic oil.

It is also a fact that the manufactures material standard spec can not alter the API spec causing the oil to fall out of the API spec or the oil can no longer include the API symbol and the oil has to be reformulated and tested again at great cost to make it comply with the API spec in order for the API symbol to be included on the bottle.

The cost of certifying an oil to the API spec cost about $600,000 dollars, if the oil fails the test the manufacture has to reformulate the oil and pay for all the tests again which is another $600,000 dollars, if they fail again yep you guessed it they have pay a third time for all the tests which is another $600,000 dollars for a grand total of $1,800,000 dollars to use the API symbol plus they have to pay a fee for every quart of oil sold to the API and if they certified with multiple manufactures they have to pay for testing there as well and they have to pay the manufactures a fee for every quart of oil sold.

It is also a fact that the owners manuals say they recommend oil with the manufactures material standard and the API spec is required. The manuals will also tell you if there is no oil available with the manufactures material standard printed on the bottle to use an oil that meets the API spec which they require you do anyway.

I have no doubt 14vern that you were/are one of the ones who push you better only run this oil or else BS and you were pushing the 5w-30 spec until FCA changed it to 5w-40.

Please explain to everyone 14vern why I have run Redline oil for years in all my combustion engines without any issues, from my wife's 1.5 Turbo Honda Civic (Redline 0w-20), to my Ram 1500 Ecodiesel (Redline 15w-40 Diesel), to my John Deere X758 Diesel tractor (Redline 15w-40 Diesel), to my Yamaha Star Venture 113 C.I. V-Twin motorcycle (Redline 10w-40 Motorcycle) to both of my Yamaha generators (Redline 10w-40 Motorcycle). My 2016 Ram 2500 4x4 6.4 Hemi also ran Redline 0w-40 without any issues.

My results are real world results 14vern.

 

There is only one way to know how your oil is really performing and that is to send used oil samples to a lab like Blackstone to have them test the oil, but even the lab can't tell you if the oil is leaving varnish build up in your engine or if the oil is coking in your engine which blocks the oil passages.

 

My gosh, there is a lot of smart people chiming in here.

I have a gas engine. How do I know how many miles the oil life indicator is counting? Can I change it from say 5,000 miles to say 3,000? Maybe because I just do a cheap oil change in a pinch?

 

My gosh, there is a lot of smart people chiming in here.

I have a gas engine. How do I know how many miles the oil life indicator is counting? Can I change it from say 5,000 miles to say 3,000? Maybe because I just do a cheap oil change in a pinch?

The only way to know is to just let it go. My 2018 Ram 1500 Hemi has so far gone as high as 8,000 miles before the OLM got down to 25% to currently 39% on only 4500 miles which is weird because back in October when I last changed my oil, I decided to go out on a limb and try the Amsoil Signature Series 5w20 engine oil and their 25,000-mile filter.

But at least one thing I feel, if the OLM's in our trucks are set up for something, its definitely set up to the cheap semi-synthetic engine oil and cheap black Mopar filter our trucks come with from the factory.

 

I'm thinking its just from learning your driving style and monitoring your idling but as far as taking into account exactly what oil you're using, I don't think that's the case but as the above poster said, you're much better off spending the money on an oil analysis report and letting that dictate when you do your changes. But at least one thing nice about the oil life meters in the 4th gens and up is how it keeps track of the mileage from when you last reset it when you did your last oil change. Thats about the only thing its good for in my book.

 

Ok, I have not been here long and am still researching Ram until pricing settles to more reasonable prices. I have seen this oil topic bantered back and forth many, many times already.
Where can I find a list of what's Class III, Class IV or Class V oil ? I haven't seen this marked on the oil containers nor on the brand web sites. True synthetic vs blend seem to also be avoided mention on the sites as well.
When I finally do buy a Ram, I plan for it to be the last truck I will ever need to buy. Just too much money to not protect.

 

I know there's a place somewhere where you can find that information but honestly, if you want to be as immune as you can to the cam and lifter failure issue on these Hemi's, run the best quality full synthetic engine oil you can with a good quality synthetic media oil filter such as the Royal Purple filter, the white SRT Mopar filter or the Wix XP filter. A lot of people run the 5w20 PUP(Pennzoil Ultra Platinum) with great results but primarily the people who are out of warranty will run Red Line 5w30 for about the best anti-wear additive package you can find. Keep your idling down and don't let that oil life meter dictate when you change your oil. Most people I know of will change their oil no more than 6,000 to 6,500 miles irregardless of what that OLM says. Also, if you're interested in long intervals, start taking oil analysis reports when you dump the oil. Thats about the best way you can figure out if you're waiting too long to change or if you could stand to go a little further.

 

oil life is calculated using , hours of run vs load vs speed ,
high idle times= lower change interval
Heavy loading= lower change interval
100mph trip to the grocery store around the block= lower change interval ( jealous looks from mustang drivers)
low power cruise on highway at ~ 70 mph= full length interval.

 

oil life is calculated using , hours of run vs load vs speed ,
high idle times= lower change interval
Heavy loading= lower change interval
100mph trip to the grocery store around the block= lower change interval ( jealous looks from mustang drivers)
low power cruise on highway at ~ 70 mph= full length interval.

All true but the bad thing is, so many people assume they can trust that oil life meter towards the cheap oil and cheap oil filter that the new trucks come with and what the dealer puts right back on there when they take their truck to the dealership to have the oil changed because it doesn’t know what type of oil you’re using. I don’t know, if you’re using the best full synthetic engine oil and the best synthetic my media oil filter, you could actually perhaps trust with the oil life a meter says but the only way to verify that is to take an oil sample and have an oil analysis tell you if you can go further or change your oil long before the oil life meter tells you to.

 

while i don't trust the manufacturer to blow their own nose most of the time what i do trust them to do is to make a vehicle and fill it with fluids of a quality that will get the truck to exactly 1 mile past its warranty period or mileage. from personal experience working in dealerships, any decent dealer uses factory components in the service dept, including factory filters and a oil complying exactly to the letter with the spec ordered for the motor, in our shops it was whatever the highest spec called for in that viscosity, delivered in a bulk tank, with material traceability certs. as for trusting the life indicator, for the first oil change i observed what the manual said and changed at that interval, since then its been mopar filter, synth 5-20 and go, like i said motor had no signs of wear in the bearings at 150k( well past any offered warranty) and would have gone further. folks get roped into buying hyper spec oils just to piss that money down the drain when interval comes up, were i filling a larger pan i would dip a sample and send it to a lab as i have done for equipment in the past, change filters at intervals required, top up with fresh oil and go till the lab said the additive package was shot or some other criteria failed the oil.

 

I have no dog in this fight, but the manufacturer of Dodge pickups, now called Ram, uses a bidding system for their Lubricants

Companies that make lubricants must submit their lubricant for testing, i forget what the timing of that testing is. 6 months, 1 year, or whatever
The testing has to be done & run by whatever the name of the auto manufacturer is, ie: Dodge, Chrysler, FCA, & now Stellantis, etc.
All testing has to be paid for by the Lubricant Manufacturer, ie: Mobile, Valvoline, Texaco, Shell

If the lubrication company is not willing to pay for all the testing for Certification, that brand will not be considered to win the Lubrication Contract for the period of 1 year.

Right now, Shell has been the only company that is willing to pay for the Testing & Certification

All of the rest of the lubrication manufacturers have decided that they can sell their brands for a large enough profit, that they don't need FCA or Stellantis to certify their oil & possibly lose money if they lost the bid for the lubrication Contract
.......

In 2007 - 2010 Mobile Oil had the Contract
In 2011 & 2012 Vavoline had the Contract
Shell Oil is the current Contract holder & no one else submits a product
Therefore you can never know if Shell is the best brand for your Ram trucks

 

Nothing anyone posts will satisfy you 9thousandfeet, but I an going to post my last Motorcycle oil analysis results.

Yamaha oil recommendation is like all manufactures their Yamalube brand oil and Yamaha says you can run 10w-40 up to 20w-50 weight oil. I run Redline 10w-40 Group V Ester synthetic motorcycle oil in my Yamaha Star Venture Transcontinental, this motorcycle has an air cooled 113 cubic inch V-Twin engine that is a shared sump design meaning the engine oil lubricates the primary unit and the transmission as well. Nothing is harder on a lubricant than gears shearing the molecules that make up the lubricant.

Yamaha has a 4,000 mile oil change interval for this motorcycle, my last oil change went 8,000 miles double the oil change spec. I use Blackstone Laboratories to do used oil analysis and that last 8,000 mile sample when I changed the oil produced the following results with the units results posted first and the universal average of these engines to the right:

Mileage on Oil: 8,000

Mileage on Unit: 38,000

Make up oil added: None

PPM stands for parts per million

Aluminum: My unit 3 ppm / universal average 7 ppm

Chromium: My unit 0 ppm / universal average 0 ppm

Iron: My unit 7 ppm / universal average 11 ppm

Copper: My unit 2 ppm / universal average 6 ppm

Lead: My unit 0 ppm / universal average 1 ppm

Tin: My unit 1 ppm / universal average 1 ppm

Molybdenum: My unit 520 ppm / universal average 111 ppm

Nickel: My unit 1 ppm / universal average 1 ppm

Manganese: My unit 0 ppm / universal average 1 ppm

Silver: My unit 0 ppm / universal average 0 ppm

Titanium: My unit 0 ppm / universal average 0 ppm

Potassium: My unit 1 ppm / universal average 2 ppm

Boron: My unit 8 ppm / universal average 85 ppm

Silicon: My unit 12 ppm / universal average 11 ppm

Sodium: My unit 10 ppm / universal average 46 ppm

Calcium: My unit 3042 ppm / universal average 2573 ppm

Magnesium: My unit 5 ppm / universal average 151 ppm

Phosphorus: My unit 1674 ppm / universal average 1222 ppm

Zinc: My unit 1916 ppm / universal average 1405 ppm

Barium: My unit 1 ppm / universal average 1 ppm

Viscosity @ 210 F 73.6 Values should be 65-76

Viscosity @ 100 C 13.90 Values should be 11.6 to 14.8

Flash point in F 435 Values should be >375

Fuel % <0.5 Values should be <2.0

Antifreeze % 0 Values should be 0

Water % 0 Values should be <0.1

Insolubles % 0.2 Values should be <0.6

TBN 8.1

[< (less than)] [> (greater than)]

That is real data on a real engine/primary/transmission shared sump design.

The average oil change interval according to Blackstone Laboratories by people for this engine is only 2,200 miles, I went right at 3.5 times farther on the oil than the average and I have better wear results than those only running 2,200 miles average per oil change.

You wanted real world data 9thousandfeet, I just provided you with real world data on my unit verse the universal average of others with the same engine.

Most people balk at the price of premium oils but real world testing has shown that Conventional Group II oil is not as good as Conventional Group III oil.

While Conventional Group III oil have gotten closer to Group IV PAO Synthetic oil it is still behind.

Group V Ester Synthetic oil is all other synthetic oils that do not fall in Group IV.

The main advantage of Group V Ester oil is Ester has a natural positive charge and like a magnet it will cling to the metal wear surfaces of the engine, so Group V Ester will cling to the crankshaft bearing surface, camshaft bearing surface and lobe surfaces, the lifter surfaces in the lifter bore and if a flat tappet lifter the bottom of the lifter, and the cylinder walls.

Why is that an advantage? Combined with the ZDDP that when at operating temperature creates a sacrificial coating on the wear surfaces the Group V Ester synthetic oil clings to these parts as well providing cold start up protection until oil pressure builds up those first few seconds.

Group I, II, III conventional oil and Group IV PAO synthetic oils do not have this natural positive charge and will drain off of the same surfaces.

Sadly the BBB National Advertising Division (NAD) sided with Castrol many years ago when they started labeling their Group III conventional oil as full synthetic, Mobil challenged that decision with NAD and tried to explain the difference between a true synthetic oil and Conventional Group III oil but NAD disregarded Mobils information and allowed oil companies to label conventional Group III oil as full synthetic. There was no legal case in a court of law and there was no judge that made this decision, it was some people at the BBB in the National Advertising Division that made this call, or a bunch of suits and ties that deal with advertising.

It cost more money to manufacture Group IV PAO and Group V Ester synthetic oils because they are made in a lab environment.

Conventional Group I, II, and III oils the oil molecules are all different sizes, Group IV PAO and Group V Ester synthetic oils all the molecules are the same shape and size because they are manufactured in a lab environment where they can control the process. That is why a true synthetic oil is superior to a conventional oil.

 

Nothing anyone posts will satisfy you 9thousandfeet

I'm perfectly satisfied that there are no peer-reviewed, double-blind, repeatable studies (otherwise known as scientific studies) which show that the lubricants you're referencing prolong engine life as compared to manufacturers' recommended lubricants when used as directed.

It's commonplace in oil discussions on the internet for anyone who points that out to be characterized as "hard to please" or "stubborn" or "impossible to satisfy" or some such diversionary nonsense, so I"m plenty used to that.
Nevertheless, the real issue at hand is still the point I'm making about proof.
If you're persuaded that I'm in error in making that point, the remedy is simple.
Simply provide a link to a scientific study which concludes that engines lubricated with upscale oils tend to run longer that those lubricated conventionally.

That is real data on a real engine/primary/transmission shared sump design.

I'm actually pretty easy to satisfy when it comes to data, and yeah, that sure looks like data to me.

I suppose if I point out that since your data are not compared to any other data under controlled conditions, and thus demonstrate nothing beyond your personal satisfaction with the lubrication strategy you have chosen, you'll call me difficult to satisfy again.

OK, I'll confess.
When it comes to defending the scientific method for reaching conclusions, I'm stubborn and hard to satisfy.
I can live with that.
🤷‍♂️

 

All these oil life monitors in every manufactures vehicles are not be all end all ways of letting you know the condition of your oil. The truth is most people change their oil way too soon which is a complete waste of resources. The only way to find out the condition of your oil is to send a sample to a lab like Blackstone and have them test it.

The reason the manufactures put those oil monitoring messages in cars is to encourage people to get the oil changed at their selected oil change interval. Once you are out of warranty the same manufacture does not care if you double or even triple the oil change mileage.

GM pushes their DEXOS oil but Valvoline refused to pay GM for the right to use the name DEXOS on their bottles, they felt all it does is raise the cost of the oil as their Valvoline oil already passes all the DEXOS standards.

 

All these oil life monitors in every manufactures vehicles are not be all end all ways of letting you know the condition of your oil. The truth is most people change their oil way too soon which is a complete waste of resources. The only way to find out the condition of your oil is to send a sample to a lab like Blackstone and have them test it.

I agree, an oil analysis is the way to go because that way you can truly tell just how far you can push your engine oil based on your driving style but there’s nothing wrong with changing the oil too soon. Sure, it is a waste of resources but if you can afford it and if it makes you feel better then there’s nothing wrong with that. But I will say, if you’re not interested in changing your oil past 5000 miles then don’t go with an oil that swears it’s ass off it’s product is designed to go for upwards of 25,000 miles or one year. There’s a lot of oils that don’t make that kind of promise that you can go with if you’re one of those that puts a shit ton of miles on your car.

The reason the manufactures put those oil monitoring messages in cars is to encourage people to get the oil changed at their selected oil change interval. Once you are out of warranty the same manufacture does not care if you double or even triple the oil change mileage.

Exactly.


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Fact the majority of an engines wear occurs at cold start up, that is why I run a Group V Ester based synthetic oil, the positive charge of Ester synthetic oil clings to the surfaces, combine that with ZDDP leaving a sacrificial coating and you have the best protection you are going to get until the oil pressure comes up. Once you have oil pressure you could run conventional Group II or Group III oil with little wear to bearing surfaces.

The other reason to run a true synthetic Group IV PAO or Group V Ester oil is the superior protection in that case where something goes wrong. Conventional Group III oil labeled as synthetic oil is still conventional oil that has just had more the of the impurities removed from it. So when you push that engine up a grade or are towing heavy and the engine temps start to climb that true synthetic Group IV PAO and Group V Ester are going to to protect that engine due to there superior ability to withstand higher temperatures with Group V Ester synthetic oil being the best.

 

Here is a question that I have yet to see anyone answer, the 5.7 Hemi is specced for 5w-20 oil and we all know that is for fuel economy to meet the EPA mandates, but there is a much repeated myth that you can't run any oil over a 5w-20 or the MDS won't function.

Here is the kicker, the 6.4 Hemi in the 2500/3500 Rams uses the same MDS system yet the 6.4 Hemi runs 0w-40 oil and the MDS system works just fine.

 

I’ve heard that as well and I have even heard that from a lot of the members on another Ram forum that I go to that have said the same thing that they run 5W30 all the time without any issues whatsoever to their MDS system But what are you expect them to do? They want us to run 20w oil because they know that’s gonna yield the highest fuel mileage.


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This went down a rabbit hole. Currently waiting on an analysis for my latest sample of Rotella GT(bought 5 gallons for $40 from AutoZ). $30 for an oil analysis and $20 worth of Group 3 with an elite additive(lubegard) is still cheaper than what some people pay for high-priced snake oil or a dealer change that have no clue on the condition of their engine and if they are utilizing the oil to its potential.

This will be my 4th Blackstone report since tuned, every 15K miles on the same RP filter with 110k on the motor(all gas no brake, had 10 oz in the catch can).

 

This went down a rabbit hole. Currently waiting on an analysis for my latest sample of Rotella GT(bought 5 gallons for $40 from AutoZ). $30 for an oil analysis and $20 worth of Group 3 with an elite additive(lubegard) is still cheaper than what some people pay for high-priced snake oil or a dealer change that have no clue on the condition of their engine and if they are utilizing the oil to its potential.

This will be my 4th Blackstone report since tuned, every 15K miles on the same RP filter with 110k on the motor(all gas no brake, had 10 oz in the catch can).

Well, you know, it is a discussion forum and that’s why we’re here but unfortunately, you’re going to wind up with differing opinions all the time.


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This is another good video that explains quality of oil as well on long intervals that lacks a good additive package. I don’t really think I agree with him fully on his talking about 30w oil because for one, 30w isn’t “twice as thick” as 20w and when the oil heats up, it’s viscosity isn’t much more than 20w. Besides, it’s the higher PPM of additives in the 30w that most people go for anyways. The other was how he pretty much said how he thinks the engine was designed to run on 20w…. I don’t buy that because they’re still using pretty much the same design so if 30w was fine at one point to substitute for 20w then why is that no longer the case? I think the 20w is just strictly no more than appeasing the EPA on economy.

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There is no right or wrong answer, the EVIC is a "suggestion". Way too many variables(temperature/load/humidity/elevation/environment) to say change @ X distance/time...

Every hour spent at warm idle is 1000 miles as far as I'm concerned, there's a reason this engine is no longer used in service vehicles. It was designed to make big horsepower with one of the best flowing production cylinder heads ever, not putz around keeping your coffee and donuts comfortable.

 

9thousandfeet,

I am pretty sure you would not take Jack Roush's word on engine failure because there was not a scientist involved but Jack Roush has forgotten more about engines than you, Garc, myself and everyone else posting in this thread ever knew. I am pretty sure you would have called Smokey Yunick a crack pot as well even though General Motors and Ford both had Smokey Yunick develop engine parts and components for them to the tune that General Motors installed card readers to get into some of his buildings and paid for security guards as well, oh and Smokey Yunick also forgot more about engines than everyone posting in this forum.

The world lost a treasure when Smokey Yunick passed away 20 years ago.

 

I am pretty sure you would not take Jack Roush's word on engine failure because there was not a scientist involved

I confess to never having heard of him, so I looked him up. You'd be wrong about whether I'd respect his take on things - I know inherent talent when I run across it, and I've spent enough time in motor sports support crews to have come across a lot of it. I'll also bet dollars to donuts he'd laugh like hell at Uncle Tony's absurd presentation in that video.

I am pretty sure you would have called Smokey Yunick a crack pot as well

Him I didn't need to look up, and you'd be wrong there too.
You don't spend any time in motorsports, even at the amateur level, without hearing about Smokey. He was brilliant, impossible, a complete rascal and one hell of a mechanic. He flourished in the "hey, I've got an idea, let's fab it up, bolt it on the car and see what happens" age of motor racing, and he was awesome.

Not sure how much he'd feel at home in the modern Formula One/Nascar scene though, 'cos it's all computer simulations out the wazoo nowadays, run over and over an over, and long before anything makes it to the fabrication shop. There's no place in top tier motorsports now for the kind of "hands-on, seat-of-the-pants figure it out on the fly" kind of genius he was.
More's the pity in my book, but there it is.

You probably should quit trying to read my mind, you don't seem to be very good at it, eh?

 

There is no oil life monitor on any vehicle manufactured from any manufacture that can inform you of the true condition of the oil in the engine. The best the manufactures can do is program an OLM to either use a set mileage or use a simple program that takes the miles driven, time idled, RPM engine load/speed to give an approximate mileage to change the oil but that still does not mean the oil was in need of being changed.

The only way to find out the condition of your oil is to send in a sample to a lab like Blackstone or one of the others who can tell you how much wear metals are in the oil in Parts Per Million (PPM) and how much additives are still in the oil and they can tell you the TBN which are the additives that neutralize the acids that contaminate the oil.

I already posted my Blackstone lab oil results from my 2018 Yamaha Star Venture Transcontinental 113 C.I. V-twin and even running twice the Yamaha oil change interval, Yamaha says change the oil every 4,000 miles, I ran the Redline 10w-40 motorcycle oil for 8,000 miles and I had better wear numbers than the universal average for this engine and the average oil change mileage was only 2,200 miles so I was over 3.5 times what the average mileage was in changing the oil.

Remember that the manufacture has to account for the people who will buy the cheapest oil they can find.

 

Remember that the manufacture has to account for the people who will buy the cheapest oil they can find.

You know, it’s awful funny you say that because the difference between the OLM in my 2018 1500 Hemi and the very basic “change oil soon” light that was in my 2008 1500 Hemi I had before, they are so completely on either end of the spectrum from each other in terms of interval that it’s like what you say about the manufacturer accounting for customers using the cheapest of cheap oil, it’s a wonder if that’s actually what it was thirteen years ago because on my old truck, once I finally decided to ignore it and bear the annoying oil change light that I had to put up with for probably two months every time I started it, to the point when it was actually time to change the oil so that I could reset it once I got the oil changed, just to see how long it would take again before it came back on and I was surprised that only barely over 2500 miles later, it was coming back on again telling me it was time to change the oil.

I really can’t imagine that’s the case on these new trucks because from what I’ve seen so far in the early stages of my truck less than a year and a half after I bought it, there was several times where it was over 7,500 miles with about 8,300 being the highest it got before it got down below 25% and telling me to change the oil and if it’s just a cheap synthetic blend or semi synthetic Pennzoil oil in a Mopar bottle that they put in at the factory and at the dealer unless you specify a full synthetic then I would be awful hard-pressed to believe that as truth because there’s just no way in hell that I would be letting my oil changes stretch out that far unless I knew damn well if the oil I’m using can actually go that far.

At least that’s just me, anyways. I’m not trying to speak for nobody else.


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For the most part it is three factors. 1. mileage, 2. recommended oil and 3. is the recommended oil filter. The only way you can truly know the condition of the oil is to extract some into a test sample bottle and send it to a lab for analysis. Then you would know if you could extend. I run a Cummins and I use Amsoils best oil and filter. At 14,000 miles I sent a sample to their lab and came back with results good and that I should retest in another 10,000 miles So now I am looking at 24,000 miles before I will check it again. This comes with a whole breakdown of findings, oil and engine condition.
But now the down side. The oil Signature series max duty syn diesel 15-40 at $17.00 a quart, oil filter at $17.00, sampling pump $25.00 (one time purchase) and one time use test bottle pre pay oil analyzer test kit at $30.00. So if you add it up really not saving much except time, waste and getting an understanding of internal parts of what you test. If you are hauling or doing a lot of mileage then there are benefits, if not and if you are not that critical about oil changes, then just go with the recommended service times

 

I have to say, after all these pages of experts and anecdotal tripe, that my business partner back in the mid 2000's bought a brand new chevy truck and decided to not change the oil, after the first oil change to Mobil 1, until the change oil meter told him to.......sorry about all the coma's....lol. It took 25,000 miles for the light to come on. The truck lasted many years. I have known people to NEVER change the oil, met one today. Changed the oil ONCE in 225,000 miles on a Toyota truck. Still running fine when he sold it. My sons bro in law bought a new Kia and drove it for 5 years and never changed the oil.....still ran fine when he traded it. I change my 6.4 Hemi every 5000 miles......but I am not sure why.

 

Not an answer to Q. But centrifuge oil filters will give oil life so long that you will do chemical analysis to prove oil is still ok,. 2 types 12V air powered @ 6K rpm or HP oil fed driven using metered jets style. I have seen a 3500 with the system mounted in the front bull-bar for ease of access in servicing .. Thinking outside the square?