[Thunderhorse]

I'm going to improve my ability to control what gear the transmission in.

I don't have an issue with the safety of the shifter. From what I can see, some people have had it stuck in PARK, but I don't consider that unsafe. I was just asking whether FCA cares that CR derates their vehicles because CR considers it unsafe.

My issue is the FUNCTIONALITY of the shifter. It provides less transmission interface than the console or column shifter it replaced, and the little buttons on the steering column are not suitable substitutes for the type of gear control some drivers would like to have.

Your issue is not with the dial, it is with the buttons to adjust ERS compared to the stick you had before.


The reason the new Durangos are getting the slapstick shifters is because the Grand Cherokee shifter had to be redesigned after the dude from Star Trek ran himself over because he thought his GC was in park but it was in D. The bump stick was admittedly a terrible design, so now all the Dodges and GC are getting the shifter the Charger has used since they got the 8 speed

 

[69fastback]

I'm going to improve my ability to control what gear the transmission in.

I don't have an issue with the safety of the shifter. From what I can see, some people have had it stuck in PARK, but I don't consider that unsafe. I was just asking whether FCA cares that CR derates their vehicles because CR considers it unsafe.

My issue is the FUNCTIONALITY of the shifter. It provides less transmission interface than the console or column shifter it replaced, and the little buttons on the steering column are not suitable substitutes for the type of gear control some drivers would like to have.

Well, I guess I was confused by your thread title then. My mistake.

 

[K-Dawg]

Your issue is not with the dial, it is with the buttons to adjust ERS compared to the stick you had before.


The reason the new Durangos are getting the slapstick shifters is because the Grand Cherokee shifter had to be redesigned after the dude from Star Trek ran himself over because he thought his GC was in park but it was in D. The bump stick was admittedly a terrible design, so now all the Dodges and GC are getting the shifter the Charger has used since they got the 8 speed

Correct. Frankly, I don't care how I get it into or out of drive/park/reverse whether it's the dial, the console stick, the column shifter, or even those stupid push buttons on the console in my wife's Pilot. These selections happen when you're stopped, and you can look a the device or the EVIC feedback, to ensure you've selected the desired position. When driving, however, I want to be able to easily and safely change gears, or at least reduce gears and return to D, on hills and bends, without taking my eyes off the road, or fumbling for tiny buttons on a sometimes moving steering wheel. Column shifters permitted you to select one of several gears below D (3,2,1). Paddle shifters move with the steering wheel, so they have a disadvantage like the buttons currently next to the cruise control buttons. The best and most intuitive is the console mounted Auto-stick, which interestingly enough, is in the same location that manual shifters are on most sports cars (and where the one on my 5AT Challenger is). I think RAM missed the boat on how many of it's customers drive their trucks by manually shifting the automatic transmission (not all the time....but when needed). For some people, it's just about being able to drive the vehicle like they've always driven. For others, controlling the gear that the truck is in is a necessary function based on the hauled or towed load, or the terrain being traversed.

The Rotary shifter knob gets the bad press, but actually, it's the tiny Gear +/- buttons added to augment the functionality removed by the knob, that is the problem.

 

[guy65]

My issue is the FUNCTIONALITY of the shifter. It provides less transmission interface than the console or column shifter it replaced, and the little buttons on the steering column are not suitable substitutes for the type of gear control some drivers would like to have.

This is absolutely not correct.


with the column shifter, all you can switch is 1-2-3-D, where you don't lock the transmission in gear, except the first and the other 2 limit to the second.
With the dial and the switches, you can switch directly up from 1st till 8th and the rest limits the gears, where the transmission is shifting to. like in the old transmission.
The difference is only how.
I actually don't know anyone, who's desire is, to switch a automatic transmission in a truck manually.
If you love to shift- why not buying a 2500 with manual transmission?


To the question if FCA cares, what some organizations say about safety is obvious. the answer is likely: "NO".
Because it's not unsafe and it's very easy to use. Also all safety measures are fulfilled.
The problem with Jeep was not the unsafe handling, but that it was possible to open the door and get out of the vehicle, while the shifter was in D, R or N and did not make an automatic emergency switch to P, when the door is opened.


Btw.- My ram don't do it either. I tried, just for the heck. You open the door and get off the brake, the transmission does not shift in P.


But this is not a safety issue by functionality, but more due to programming.

 

[Thunderhorse]

Correct. Frankly, I don't care how I get it into or out of drive/park/reverse whether it's the dial, the console stick, the column shifter, or even those stupid push buttons on the console in my wife's Pilot. These selections happen when you're stopped, and you can look a the device or the EVIC feedback, to ensure you've selected the desired position. When driving, however, I want to be able to easily and safely change gears, or at least reduce gears and return to D, on hills and bends, without taking my eyes off the road, or fumbling for tiny buttons on a sometimes moving steering wheel. Column shifters permitted you to select one of several gears below D (3,2,1). Paddle shifters move with the steering wheel, so they have a disadvantage like the buttons currently next to the cruise control buttons. The best and most intuitive is the console mounted Auto-stick, which interestingly enough, is in the same location that manual shifters are on most sports cars (and where the one on my 5AT Challenger is). I think RAM missed the boat on how many of it's customers drive their trucks by manually shifting the automatic transmission (not all the time....but when needed). For some people, it's just about being able to drive the vehicle like they've always driven. For others, controlling the gear that the truck is in is a necessary function based on the hauled or towed load, or the terrain being traversed.

The Rotary shifter knob gets the bad press, but actually, it's the tiny Gear +/- buttons added to augment the functionality removed by the knob, that is the problem.

Ok, so we're past the knob :smileup:

Paddle shifters do not need to be mounted to the wheel; Ferrari mounts theirs to the steering column cover behind the wheel so they are stationary. Either way, I can move my hands around the circumference of the wheel and use the paddles on the Durango just fine when turning.

 

[jsimon7777]

It's important that a car in drive, moving slowly, not shift into park when a door is open. Otherwise, there's no way for me to ghost ride the whip.

 

[K-Dawg]

This is absolutely not correct.


with the column shifter, all you can switch is 1-2-3-D, where you don't lock the transmission in gear, except the first and the other 2 limit to the second.
With the dial and the switches, you can switch directly up from 1st till 8th and the rest limits the gears, where the transmission is shifting to. like in the old transmission.
The difference is only how.
I actually don't know anyone, who's desire is, to switch a automatic transmission in a truck manually.
If you love to shift- why not buying a 2500 with manual transmission?


To the question if FCA cares, what some organizations say about safety is obvious. the answer is likely: "NO".
Because it's not unsafe and it's very easy to use. Also all safety measures are fulfilled.
The problem with Jeep was not the unsafe handling, but that it was possible to open the door and get out of the vehicle, while the shifter was in D, R or N and did not make an automatic emergency switch to P, when the door is opened.


Btw.- My ram don't do it either. I tried, just for the heck. You open the door and get off the brake, the transmission does not shift in P.


But this is not a safety issue by functionality, but more due to programming.

I like the automatic transmission. I don't want to clutch/shift all the time. And I don't need a 2500. RAM not offering a manual transmission in the 1500 is a completely different discussion.

All I want to do is be able to downshift on a down hill/curve, or at highway speeds when you approach slower traffic (so I'm not touching brakes at 75 or 80 MPH), without taking my eyes off the road. I've been driving my Challenger like this for years. My old 2006 Ridgeline had an D/OD button on the column shifter that took me out of one of the two OD gears into 3rd gear which was perfect for deceleration. Finding those tiny gear +/- buttons, either in the dark, or while the steering wheel is moving in a turn is not easy. Slapping an auto stick is easy and intuitive and is not the same tactile sensation as setting the speed on your cruise control.

If you look around this and other RAM forums, there are plenty of people who either would like to be able to control the gear their 8AT is in. Not everybody drives their RAM like a Prius.

 

[striker2237]

It's important that a car in drive, moving slowly, not shift into park when a door is open. Otherwise, there's no way for me to ghost ride the whip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLvlGVNInw4

 

[striker2237]

I like the automatic transmission. I don't want to clutch/shift all the time. And I don't need a 2500. RAM not offering a manual transmission in the 1500 is a completely different discussion.

All I want to do is be able to downshift on a down hill/curve, or at highway speeds when you approach slower traffic (so I'm not touching brakes at 75 or 80 MPH), without taking my eyes off the road. I've been driving my Challenger like this for years. My old 2006 Ridgeline had an D/OD button on the column shifter that took me out of one of the two OD gears into 3rd gear which was perfect for deceleration. Finding those tiny gear +/- buttons, either in the dark, or while the steering wheel is moving in a turn is not easy. Slapping an auto stick is easy and intuitive and is not the same tactile sensation as setting the speed on your cruise control.

If you look around this and other RAM forums, there are plenty of people who either would like to be able to control the gear their 8AT is in. Not everybody drives their RAM like a Prius.

You DO realize that constantly doing that is bad for an automatic transmission because you are reversing the power flow direction in the TQ converter and will wear everything out faster right? I mean go right ahead but you ARE putting more wear on EVERYTHING inside the transmission case by subjecting stuff to bi-directional force input. Power is designed to go from the engine to the wheels and if it goes the other way you are fighting the design of the converter and possibly other intervals.

AKA the vanes in the TQ converter are designed to act on the fluid with force going a particular way and are reinforced accordingly, you are demanding it go the other way often with far more force than normal AUTOMATED AND ENGINEERED tow/haul mode dynamic downshifting does.



Last forum meetup my dad's former truck would easily control it's speed in tow haul mode on some serious hills with no brake input from me, in NON-TOW HAUL it would speed up a lot. However in my truck I was forced to manually control my gears using the shifter to limit it to 1st since my truck has a very primitive system that is unable to automatically and instantly optimize engine braking for a given situation. This DIRECTLY leads to me being more "unsafe" since I had to watch the road, RPMs, play with the stick, and maintain speed opposed to just watching the road.


Lastly since you have triggered my "rant" mode I guarantee you I drive my ram harder than you do and when I drive a 4th gen I simply turn TC off, put it in 4wd AUTO, and limit it to 6th gear with Tow/haul on. NOTHING MORE IS NEEDED.

 

[K-Dawg]

I actually don't know anyone, who's desire is, to switch a automatic transmission in a truck manually.

You should look around this Forum a little more. The lamentations of the 8AT's lack of stick shifter runs through many threads. Any thread dealing with the rotary shifter, engine braking, coasting, towing, off-roading etc... have discussions on manually selecting gears on the 8AT.

RAM's missing the boat on not having an auto-stick, especially for their Sport and off-road oriented models (Rebel/PowerWagon). There are plenty of people who tune up their Sport trucks and drive them like a car. (There's an entire NASCAR racing series that appeals to this type of truck driver), and the off-roader's desire to manually shift gears is well documented.

Your run-of-the-mill Big Horn or Laramie driver probably has no desire to think about gears. Just turn the dial to D and let the computer do the shifting. But there's a subset of the RAM models that should have the auto-stick as an option for drivers who want and/or need this function.

 

[guy65]

I like the automatic transmission. I don't want to clutch/shift all the time. And I don't need a 2500. RAM not offering a manual transmission in the 1500 is a completely different discussion.

All I want to do is be able to downshift on a down hill/curve, or at highway speeds when you approach slower traffic (so I'm not touching brakes at 75 or 80 MPH), without taking my eyes off the road. I've been driving my Challenger like this for years. My old 2006 Ridgeline had an D/OD button on the column shifter that took me out of one of the two OD gears into 3rd gear which was perfect for deceleration. Finding those tiny gear +/- buttons, either in the dark, or while the steering wheel is moving in a turn is not easy. Slapping an auto stick is easy and intuitive and is not the same tactile sensation as setting the speed on your cruise control.

If you look around this and other RAM forums, there are plenty of people who either would like to be able to control the gear their 8AT is in. Not everybody drives their RAM like a Prius.

Well, did you try to drive a little more defensive and look a little further down the road? this prevents you from a lot of breaking at 80mph.
I drive every day I85 for 20 miles and another 10 miles 385. who's from around here, knows, what I'm talking about.
I found out, that if I put the cruise control to 70, I barely have to step on the brakes, am just 10mph above speed limit, which makes me don't care about the guy behind me, thinking to pass a transfer truck with 10-15mph faster and being 10mph above speed limit is not fast enough and I get even in morning and evening traffic an average mpg of 20-22mpg.
My brake pads looking still great, even after 85000 miles. I also found, that all them 90mph speeders are usually the ones clogging everything up, because when they pass left and right, they swerve in and out and everyone steps on the brakes because of them. At the end, at the exit, I all see them again. They are not 5 feet further than I. but their nerves are shot, I'm relaxed.
the truck is not a race car. And I drive the same way with my camper in tow. ok- then max 60-65mph by choice, but I never had a problem.
When I see, that someone in the front steps on the brakes, I simply disable the cc and let it roll, mostly, when I'm behind them, I don't even have to brake, because I usually have the same speed until then. And when it's clearing up, I step on the gas. simple as that.
If you think, that's driving like a prius- well- that so it be. I just know, that my vehicles always lasted a long, long time without repairs and very low cost of wear replacements. And even with camper down hill I never had an issue, because if you know, that if you roll down hill and step short on the brakes, the TCM recognizes it and does not switch gear up, until you step on the gas again. this way, you use the motor brake.
I really don't understand your problem. Seriously.
And the least I understand is, that you compare a RAM with a Charger or challenger. The only thing they have in common are the 4 wheels.
Oh, well...

 

[huntergreen]

There is nothing unsafe about dial shifter.

 

[striker2237]

You should look around this Forum a little more. The lamentations of the 8AT's lack of stick shifter runs through many threads. Any thread dealing with the rotary shifter, engine braking, coasting, towing, off-roading etc... have discussions on manually selecting gears on the 8AT.

RAM's missing the boat on not having an auto-stick, especially for their Sport and off-road oriented models (Rebel/PowerWagon). There are plenty of people who tune up their Sport trucks and drive them like a car. (There's an entire NASCAR racing series that appeals to this type of truck driver), and the off-roader's desire to manually shift gears is well documented.

Your run-of-the-mill Big Horn or Laramie driver probably has no desire to think about gears. Just turn the dial to D and let the computer do the shifting. But there's a subset of the RAM models that should have the auto-stick as an option for drivers who want and/or need this function.

M'kay.

 

[K-Dawg]

Well sometimes a lane dodger jumps in front of you, and popping the cruise control off, just isn't enough, grabbing a gear or two keeps you from having to heat up your rotors.

This is really a driving style thing, and lamenting the manufacturer elimination of that option.....unnecessarily.

Oh, and in addition to having 4 wheels in common, the RAM/Charger/Challenger share the 5.7 HEMI motor and the 8AT (and some other electronic do-dads as well). They're more alike under the skin than you think.

 

[Thunderhorse]

ERS is for limiting transmission range, e.g. locking out overdrives when towing. That is a pretty standard thing to need to be able to do in a truck.

What kind of degenerate stands on the hood of their car? Not on my paint.

What K-dawg wants is a manual valve body

Well sometimes a lane dodger jumps in front of you, and popping the cruise control off, just isn't enough, grabbing a gear or two keeps you from having to heat up your rotors.

Oh, and in addition to having 4 wheels in common, the RAM/Charger/Challenger share the 5.7 HEMI motor and the 8AT (and some other electronic do-dads as well). They're more alike under the skin than you think.

The 5.7 in the Charger and Challenger use different cams, lifter sets, and intakes than Rams, as does the 5.7 in the HDs.

It really is ok to use your brakes to stop, its what they are on the truck for.

The transmission on the other hand, is there to allow a wide range of wheel speeds over a more narrow range of engine speeds

 

[K-Dawg]

The shifter is safe.

There is nothing unsafe about dial shifter.

All of these people seem to have a different opinion.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/automatic-shifters-proceed-with-caution/

http://bestride.com/news/industry-news/the-worst-shifter-designs-of-2015

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/a5obz4x/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nhtsa-investigates-dangers-monostable-electronic-gearshift-fiat-chrysler-jeep-grand-cherokee/

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/03/cr-takes-stand-on-modern-gearboxes/

https://www.cars.com/articles/carscom-editors-sound-off-on-electronic-gear-selectors-1420683874162/

 

[K-Dawg]

Engine Braking

ERS is for limiting transmission range, e.g. locking out overdrives when towing. That is a pretty standard thing to need to be able to do in a truck.

What kind of degenerate stands on the hood of their car? Not on my paint.

What K-dawg wants is a manual valve body



The 5.7 in the Charger and Challenger use different cams, lifter sets, and intakes than Rams, as does the 5.7 in the HDs.

It really is ok to use your brakes to stop, its what they are on the truck for.

The transmission on the other hand, is there to allow a wide range of wheel speeds over a more narrow range of engine speeds

So this is just some sort of mystical voo-doo practiced by witch doctors and shamans?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_braking

 

[K-Dawg]

Engine Braking

It really is ok to use your brakes to stop, its what they are on the truck for.

I do use my brakes for STOPPING. I use the engine/transmission for slowing down. Makes no sense to ride my brakes down a hill or into a curve when I can grab a gear and let the engine/tranny (machinery that's much more robust than calibers/pads/rotors) do the work. Staying off of the brakes on slippery roads also keeps me from relying on ABS and whatever else the truck does to keep from skidding. If I'm not putting on the brakes, I don't have a chance to skid. I find engine braking to be a smoother (and more engaging) way to drive. I'm sure you've seen the polar opposite type of driver, they're either on the gas, or on the brake. I call them "digital drivers".

 

[K-Dawg]

Let's wrap this thread up.

In summary, Consumer reports and a bunch of other automobile watchdog organizations think that non-traditional electronic transmission shifters (including the RAM rotary shifter) are non-intuitive and unsafe. Their opinion.

The RAM rotary shifter does not provide the same type of transmission interface that the Auto-Stick does, and there are some drivers who would like to have the Auto-Stick interface in the RAM truck.

 

[Thunderhorse]

All of these people seem to have a different opinion.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/automatic-shifters-proceed-with-caution/

Shifter is dangerous because people who aren't used to it can confuse it for other things...sure...

http://bestride.com/news/industry-news/the-worst-shifter-designs-of-2015

Arbitrary clickbait list article

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/a5obz4x/

This guy actually likes it and is mystified as to why people forget to shift into park because the shifter is different

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nhtsa-...ates-dangers-monostable-electronic-gearshift-fiat-chrysler-jeep-grand-cherokee/

Completely irrelevant, this article is not even about the same shifter. Its about the bump stick shifter the WK2s used to have where you had to pay attention to make sure the stick bumped into gear. The Star Trek dude did not pay attention, and is no longer with us because of it.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/03/cr-takes-stand-on-modern-gearboxes/

Attempt to legitimize CR's ridiculous assertion that the dial is somehow dangerous

https://www.cars.com/articles/carscom-editors-sound-off-on-electronic-gear-selectors-1420683874162/

These people are all complaining about other shifters, to include the aforementioned Jeep unit, and praise the rotary knob

I'm actually disappointed. A) I thought you had moved past the dial and realized your issue was with the buttons used for ERS, and B) it appears you didn't actually read most of the links you posted.

So this is just some sort of mystical voo-doo practiced by witch doctors and shamans?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_braking

I know what engine braking is, and its still not intended to be your primary brake system.

Engine braking is useful for long grades where you would actually overheat your brakes using them to slow down. On such grades, you set the ERS to the top gear you want it to shift to and forget it, or use tow/haul.

The rotors and pads are still your main source of braking as they will stop you much faster, and stopping the truck is literally the only reason they are on the truck.