[Mikes2nd]

sound like the dealer snookered you with something to make it work until you hit the road... had he done a quick "fix" and there was bearing damage and he sold you a truck that had been "fixed" it can fail fast... you got hosed and i would sue... This has nothing to do with cam/lifter failure... this is about a crooked dealer dude.. Blame the right person... not the engine... what did the carfax show? Many states have 24 hour return laws... they have to take it back

 

[Mikes2nd]

can see how close the lifter is on the oil galley and lifter as it comes out the bore.

 

[WLB]

If you morons cant even comprehend splash oiling or failure analysis i might as well be arguing with dirt.

Those guys do not understand that there is a casting in the block that keeps oil from splashing on the cam at idle. I do a municipalities fleet vehicles most of which are 5.7 hemis. they have numerous cam and lifter failures due to extended idling. uoy cannot fix the drainbacks or casting without a redesign I have used johnson lifters in alot of rebuilds. they have a proprietary oiling hole inthe bottom of the lifter that will oil the roller and also drip on the cam. howards lifters have the same design. who knows they may be made by johnson. at any rate they do prolong the life of what happens.Unfortunately dodge built an inherant hiccup in this engine.

 

[Mikes2nd]

Those guys do not understand that there is a casting in the block that keeps oil from splashing on the cam at idle.

you said you fix it with johnston lifters though? If the only way the cam got oil was the splash... it would still fail... yet you admit you "fix" it with johnston lifters? Uncle tony is clueless man... there is no real splash from the crank... sigh... stop believing morons on the internet who are trying to get hits... Change the oil... idling on dirty oil is bad on vvt/mds... Mopar pushed the HP on the Hemis in 2009... probably a little to aggressive with the cam lift, (When VVT/MDS clogs or the "computer" get confused bad things happen. Its been migrated out slowly and Its pretty much fixed in 2017... and they had a very small percentage of lifter quality control issues.

 

[Mikes2nd]

By the way that "casting" is the oil lifter galleys that is what lubricates the lifter needle bearings and thusly the rollers/cam...

 

[Garc]

It’s been 4 years since Melling has been supplying lifters now. Thousand of engines above an beyond 100k miles without failure.

This was QC lifter problem(penny pinching) in combination with poor maintenance/lubrication strategy.

 

[Hemipursuit]

with the last question you disqualify yourself and showed me, you have no idea, what you're talking about. Read some books and learn something- you might figure out, what I'm talking about.

Have fun.

I know this is an old thread, but you guys are dicks. This man obviously found a solution, which I'll add is similar to your 'oil hose over the rockers' comment. Why is it that when someone wants to post something helpful, ** *** feel the need to try and act smarter?

 

[Thunderhorse]

I know this is an old thread, but you guys are dicks. This man obviously found a solution, which I'll add is similar to your 'oil hose over the rockers' comment. Why is it that when someone wants to post something helpful, ** *** feel the need to try and act smarter?

Whether he found a solution is unknown, because he doesn't know for sure what the problem is-none of us do. So no, he didn't obviously find a solution.

We do have information that indicates certain things though. For example, the cutaway that Garc posted showing the oil passages for the valvetrain shows that the OP's claim that the lifters and cam are splash oiled is simply wrong. In turn, that indicates that his "solution" is in fact, not the solution because the premise is wrong.

Lastly, welcome to the site. I encourage you to re-read the site rules, which you violated in your post. Since the last language warning I issued was on pg 1 of this thread I didn't temp ban you, but you can argue and disagree with people without calling them what I edited out of your post.

 

[Helram]

I'm making this post as a PSA. If anyone wants to argue over anything please take it to another thread.

To understand why the cam and lifters are failing in VVT hemis you have to understand something very basic. The cam to roller tappet surface is splash oiled with oil flung off the crankshaft. Its been noted by several posters on this forum that fleet vehicles that idle a lot seem to have more failures. My personal 5.7 sees a good amount of idling as well. Oil splash is lowest at idle. Hence the failures.

A little back story in my personal situation: I purchased a 2009 2500 5.7 hemi 4 door 4x4 long bed from texas cheap. 260K miles or so. Had no idea about hemi cam and lifter failures. I needed a crew cab and 3/4 ton or larger for towing and family etc. but had a budget that kept me away from almost everything. For the price I said to myself, if it needs an engine, trans or rear end its worth it for the clean body. By 262-265k miles a lifter had failed to the point of engine knocking and misfires on cyl. #5. Pulled the motor, new cam, upgraded lifters (i thought), all new gaskets, head job and cleaning/checking of the block bearings etc. etc. Back in business. Drove to 280k miles and i began to hear the dreaded cold start tick. Changed the oil and sure enough I could see some flakes in the oil filter. Pulled engine again and here we are. View attachment 128776 View attachment 128777 View attachment 128778




At first glance the lifters appear to be fine. But note the wear on the cam surface. After i dried some of the oil off the rollers on the lifters the problem became apparent. Several rollers in several lifters had rough spots. I also noticed axial play in some of the rollers. The lack of oil was pounding the roller in the lifter into submission but I cought it before a major failure. The wear on the camshaft shows the story, rollers were on a cam surface without oil. All the metal shavings in the filter, lifter bodies and in the VVT solenoid were very fine and NOT excessive.

So the solution is dedicated roller lifter axle oiling. 1 company makes them. Johnson lifters out of taylor, MI. Hydraulic Roller Lifters
Other companies claim to have "hemi upgraded lifters." I had a set of "those" in my engine. They do not solve the problem of no oil splash at idle!

Awesome information, and appreciate the posts. Alicia for all the rude folks in here.
Is there a way to tune out VVT in the hemi?

 

[HEMIMANN]

A number of tuners are available that can turn off the MDS. Is that what you mean by "VVT"? Or is the VVT over and above the MDS?

 

[Thunderhorse]

A number of tuners are available that can turn off the MDS. Is that what you mean by "VVT"? Or is the VVT over and above the MDS?

VVT is variable valve timing. You can get a lockout kit for the cam phaser, a lot of custom grind cams require them

 

[HEMIMANN]

VVT is variable valve timing. You can get a lockout kit for the cam phaser, a lot of custom grind cams require them

Yes, I know what VVT stands for. Are the VVT and the MDS two independent mechanical systems in HEMI engines? If yes, how does the VVT work w/o overhead camshaft? I have not heard of issues with VVT in HEMIs.

 

[Mikes2nd]

these engines are not "splash" lubricated... thats funny those are lawn mowers...

 

[HEMIMANN]

Well, I figured since most of us have a variety of engines, that might hit home a bit.

 

[Thunderhorse]

Yes, I know what VVT stands for. Are the VVT and the MDS two independent mechanical systems in HEMI engines? If yes, how does the VVT work w/o overhead camshaft? I have not heard of issues with VVT in HEMIs.

Hemis got VVT in 2009, it runs off the timing assembly.

MDS is separate and runs off the lifters. THere are solenoids that increase oil flow to lifters on deactivated cylinders

 

[wolffy]

I am looking at a 2018 Laramie, used, to possibly purchase. the truck has the 5.7 vvt hemi. I have the VIN. Is there anyway to tell if this 2018 has the new design lifters?

 

[HEMIMANN]

Read through the thread. Short answer is no beyond FCA's assurances the change was made starting with the 2017 model year.

 

[Brother]

So the next question we had was why do we not see these failures in 03-08 hemis? -All we (myself and 3 other knowledgeable, notable people in the industry) can come up with is billet camshafts and lack of VVT. The hemi was never designed for VVT originally, it was added later. It was designed with MDS originally.

Why does everyone claim the lifters are bad from the factory?-In my opinion they are not bad or a poor design. Nor do I think there were/are QC issues. I believe people see a locked up roller lifter with needle bearings and blame the first thing they see instead of actually identifying the problem. OR by the time the repair was performed identification of the cause may not be as easy to catch. I did it myself with my first set of lifters and forgot about it and drove my truck.

Why do some have zero problems when others have problems? -I cannot answer that, only guess. Myabe most people just start their hemi up, drop it in gear and drive. It seems backwards but I can see one of these lasting longer with people who do that.

5w-20 oil?-In my opinion chrysler knew something was up and recommended the 5w-20 oil as an easy stop gap for lifter life and emissions. With that water thin oil in a v8 it can splash off the crank and travel up to the cam easier. Where as I THINK the 03-08 engines recommended 5w-30.

Usually people build performance motors with big cams in there 5.7 hemi . Are you using the beehive springs and stock push rods . If using the Eagle heads or the 6.1 hemi heads you have to upgrade the lifters and push rods to the 6.1 hemi push rods they will oil the top end of that 5.7 hemi . You have to match everything to the heads cam and top end . Hope this helps

I'm making this post as a PSA. If anyone wants to argue over anything please take it to another thread.

To understand why the cam and lifters are failing in VVT hemis you have to understand something very basic. The cam to roller tappet surface is splash oiled with oil flung off the crankshaft. Its been noted by several posters on this forum that fleet vehicles that idle a lot seem to have more failures. My personal 5.7 sees a good amount of idling as well. Oil splash is lowest at idle. Hence the failures.

A little back story in my personal situation: I purchased a 2009 2500 5.7 hemi 4 door 4x4 long bed from texas cheap. 260K miles or so. Had no idea about hemi cam and lifter failures. I needed a crew cab and 3/4 ton or larger for towing and family etc. but had a budget that kept me away from almost everything. For the price I said to myself, if it needs an engine, trans or rear end its worth it for the clean body. By 262-265k miles a lifter had failed to the point of engine knocking and misfires on cyl. #5. Pulled the motor, new cam, upgraded lifters (i thought), all new gaskets, head job and cleaning/checking of the block bearings etc. etc. Back in business. Drove to 280k miles and i began to hear the dreaded cold start tick. Changed the oil and sure enough I could see some flakes in the oil filter. Pulled engine again and here we are. View attachment 128776 View attachment 128777 View attachment 128778




At first glance the lifters appear to be fine. But note the wear on the cam surface. After i dried some of the oil off the rollers on the lifters the problem became apparent. Several rollers in several lifters had rough spots. I also noticed axial play in some of the rollers. The lack of oil was pounding the roller in the lifter into submission but I cought it before a major failure. The wear on the camshaft shows the story, rollers were on a cam surface without oil. All the metal shavings in the filter, lifter bodies and in the VVT solenoid were very fine and NOT excessive.

So the solution is dedicated roller lifter axle oiling. 1 company makes them. Johnson lifters out of taylor, MI. Hydraulic Roller Lifters
Other companies claim to have "hemi upgraded lifters." I had a set of "those" in my engine. They do not solve the problem of no oil splash at idle!

Are you using eagle heads or bigger valves with beehive springs and bigger cam ? The factory push rods or stock oil pump is not enough . You need to go high volume oil pump with the 6.1 hemi push rods especially with beehive springs and bigger valves . Did you use stock cam with bigger valve train or heads ? As all this has to match period . If didn't you changed any of this and you have this problem Wich it sounds as if you went with bigger cam don't know . The stock oil pump is not enough . All Dodge always had a start up ticking for a minute because the holes in the pushrods are to small You can fix this with a high volume oil pump and the 6.1 pushrods or have your 5.7 machined to fix Dodges flaws. Hope it helps Brother

 

[Mikes2nd]

the factory oil pump is plenty... hell if you race your car it blows the screens out of the the vvt solenoid! we have oil pressure gauges man and as long as they work, we know how much oil pressure we have. New lifter were introduced in 2016 across the board. the hellcat lifters. If the guy only got 30k out of his rebuild... That's a failed rebuild, you can have shavings behind the bearings, you have to drop the oil pan also...

 

[JL_tall]

Hey, I'm new here and about to tear into my 2014 Ram hemi , 85,000 on it lifter knock and I want to use these Johnson lifters, did you use these? Thanks for your great post and your completely RIGHT...I've been investigating this for many months as I also have a Charger and Jeep both with Hemis and both sitting with lifter cam failure! That's right I own THREE failed Hemis...so yes it's a common problem! Thanks again(REALLY)!

Tom

I'm new to the forum also and I also have a 2014 Ram Hemi with 85K and change like you, but so far so good. From past experience, I built a 460 engine to race in a small truck some years ago and installed a windage tray, big mistake. By limiting the oil spash factor I've gone through 2 cams with flattened lobes (single lobe) in the same position. Next step is to take out tray. FYI on a former small block roller retro-fit roller by Crane, it was machined out of solid billet steel. I could rev it all day at 6K. Still ran when I built the 460.