It's a dealership problem.
What was the "lack of maintenance" that wasn't performed as it should have been? Are they claiming oil changes weren't performed and if so can you prove they were?

 

Hi there, they’re not being specific and the dealership refused to turn over our service records. Clinton Slack, Mountain View Dodge’s GM says he doesn’t know what I mean by service records or a read out of the truck’s computer log. Really? We got the oil changed with top quality synthetic when the computer told us to, and we first asked them to service the tick at around 50,000km. I can be more specific on that once the courts order them to provide us with our service records.

So after twice claiming not to hear the obvious engine tick, on March 10th Mountain View Dodge finally acknowledged it and the diagnosis was a faulty motor blower and manifold; but not to worry, the repairs would be covered by our extended warranty. But after the “repair” and they tried for the third time to give us back the truck with the loud tick still chirping away the next diagnosis was a seized wrist pin - but FCA was refusing the warranty claim because of improper maintenance. Their word on that, nothing on paper.

Despite their bad faith warranty refusal, we still haven’t received a quote to replace the defective parts, they gave us that diagnosis on March 10! The quote we finally received after three weeks was to replace the entire engine block for $14,000. What? They’ve since recanted that diagnosis and now say it only needs all 8 pistons replaced for $4,100. And the number of diagnostic and disassembly hours they claimed we owed jumped from 5 to 10 and then back down to 5. Sounds a whole lot like fraud doesn’t it? I’ve been advised they’ll simply claim incompetence in court.

We’ve since learned that the 5.7L Hemi engines are very problematic and the Hemi Tick is a major issue the FCA now appears to be attempting to profit from. How clever of them! And it would seem that Mountain View Dodge Service staff claimed to not hear the OBVIOUS TICK in an attempt to run out the 4 year CANMVAP protection, as CAMVAP is well aware of the factory defects in the 5.7L Hemi and assists consumers in either getting their vehicles repaired or it forces FCA to buy them back.

There’s currently a class action lawsuit in the US suing FCA for a pattern of bad faith warranty refusals. If enough people sue in Small Claims Court here a law firm may pick up the case and work to force FCA to redesign the problematic 5.7L Hemi engine and stop bilking loyal Dodge owners. Fingers crossed.

The mechanic that works on our MGB advised that Dealerships believe they have their customers “over a barrel” because it’s difficult to show a loss when they deny your warranty claim and you don’t agree to pay for the greatly inflated repair they’ve recommended. We’re trading our 2013 Ram 1500 Sport in as-is, and have been able to quantify the value we’ve lost because of the ticking sound coming from our engine. Wish us luck in small claims. Even if we don’t prevail, how Mountain View Dodge and FCA have conducted themselves, and the problems we‘ve had with the 5.7L will be on record. It’s something.

And to think..we were getting the tick repaired so we could trade the 1500 in on a Jeep Gladiator. We feel we’ve DODGED a bullet!

 

Just so you know on the 5.7, according to the parts manager at our local dealer, FCA has had 7 different vendors on the engine alone and none of them can seem to fix that problem,I have said all along that it is an oiling problem.

 

That's part of the problem, the 5.7 isn't problematic. The percentage of failures is not close to as large as I am guessing you think it is.
Many of the ticks are broken manifold studs, some are lifter/cam failure but it isn't even close to a majority of 5.7's fail.
Many others are just the fact that the lifter isn't full of oil on startup and not really an issue (those go away within 3-8 seconds or so).

Wrist pins are almost unheard of in the 5.7.

I would never go by the oil change monitor, long oil changes are recommended for lower cost of ownership in the 3-4 year range - not for long term durability. Thank you JD Power!

IF your oil changes were with high quality synthetic oil, they most likely were not done at the dealer - as they use a blend and not full synthetic unless you pay extra for it. IF you had the oil changes done at a FCA dealer, ANY dealer can pull up your maint. records, so just go to another dealer with your vin and ask them - if they ask why just say you forgot to keep them and want to have them for the next owner for when you get rid of the truck.
IF you had the oil changes done elsewhere, that place should have the records.
IF you did them yourself, hopefully you kept receipts - I haven't and am hoping it doesn't bite me, but my dealer doesn't seem to be a jerk.
Most dealers will look at the engine and not think twice unless it is sludged up.

 

That's part of the problem, the 5.7 isn't problematic. The percentage of failures is not close to as large as I am guessing you think it is.
Many of the ticks are broken manifold studs, some are lifter/cam failure but it isn't even close to a majority of 5.7's fail.
Many others are just the fact that the lifter isn't full of oil on startup and not really an issue (those go away within 3-8 seconds or so).

Wrist pins are almost unheard of in the 5.7.

I would never go by the oil change monitor, long oil changes are recommended for lower cost of ownership in the 3-4 year range - not for long term durability. Thank you JD Power!

IF your oil changes were with high quality synthetic oil, they most likely were not done at the dealer - as they use a blend and not full synthetic unless you pay extra for it. IF you had the oil changes done at a FCA dealer, ANY dealer can pull up your maint. records, so just go to another dealer with your vin and ask them - if they ask why just say you forgot to keep them and want to have them for the next owner for when you get rid of the truck.
IF you had the oil changes done elsewhere, that place should have the records.
IF you did them yourself, hopefully you kept receipts - I haven't and am hoping it doesn't bite me, but my dealer doesn't seem to be a jerk.
Most dealers will look at the engine and not think twice unless it is sludged up.

Hi there, what do you mean exactly, by “recommended long oil changes?” It’s recommended owners go longer between oil changes than the computer prompts you to?

Yes, we had the changes done at a LubeX type place and Mountain View Dodge spoke to the details of those changes. Bailey and Clinton Slack said we’d gone a few km’s past the computer prompt on several occasions so the synthetic oil was dirty which caused a wrist pin to seize. They said they sent pictures of the dirty oil and seized pin to the FCA, who then refused to warranty our repair. But they refuse to send my husband those same pics, who is working 5 hours drive away. Not to mention we’ve been driving that truck with the annoying tick chirping away for over 5 years...we finally insisted they deal with it because we wanted to sell the truck, maybe trade it in, but no one’s going to buy it chirping away like that. The only positive thing is it will be easy to quantify the loss in value we’ve experienced because of the tick. This will simplify the Small Claims Court process.

We want the service records from the dealership because they‘ll show we brought that truck in to have the tick fixed on three separate occasions. On the first two visits they claimed they couldn’t hear a tick. But yes, good idea, I’ll go to the oil change shops directly
for the maintenance records.

The mechanics I’ve been speaking to here say the chirping Hemi’s are a hugely common problem and it’s almost always a lifter if it’s constant. As you stated, it’s sometimes faulty manifold bolts but usually lifters. It would appear that FCA and Dodge dealerships are desperate to keep the faulty lifters from being listed as a factory defect. I’m waiting on data from CAMVAP on complaints involving chirping 5.7L Hemi’s, that will be an interesting read. When the dealership first changed out the manifold under our extended warranty on March 3rd, I believe we had to pay $88.00 for bolts, the part mechanics say is the actual failure in that repair. Interesting. The salesman had sold us a $7,400 “bumper to bumper” extended warranty but it isn’t bumper to bumper at all. In fact, if it’s an expensive repair, it isn’t a warranty at all.

Mechanics with their own little shops also say the number of bad faith warranty refusals have skyrocketed since the downturn in the economy, and their business has increased. Good for them, bad for Dodge customers.

 

I wish you luck, but would be surprised if you prevail in small claims court.
IMO, you threw it all away when trading it in as is.

Ps, it isn't FCA's fault the truck wasn't fixed, you were out of warranty. Mainly, the dealer's and possible the warranty company (Mopar plan isn't FCA but rather a separate division possibly) but unless you have a statement from them stating the warranty is void, you might out of luck there.

 

We b

We bought the extended warranty from FCA via the dealership. The truck is not out of warranty. We were sold a $7,400 “bumper to bumper” FCA warranty valid for 7 years or 160,000km. The warranty expires on May 31, 2020, the truck has 133,000km on it. It started chirping at ~50,000km.

 

With a 2013 there is no way the truck was within the factory powertrain warranty regardless of mileage. I am not sure what the specifics of this particular aftermarket warranty are, but it sounds like your real beef is with the dealer for not honoring their end of the deal.

It would be an exaggeration to say the 5.7 Hemi is hugely problematic; timing assemblies are pretty trouble free, bottom ends are strong, etc... The only real issue that is common enough and serious enough to say that about is lifters wiping cam lobes on occasion. Counting yours-I assume that's what you are talking about though you didn't say what your specific problem was-we are tracking 130 2009 or newer 5.7s that have had this happen. Those numbers only count people who confirmed it was a valvetrain failure, not people who just said they have a tick. Still don't really know why it happens, but we have a thread on it here:

Ram hemi cam/lifter failure thread

2011 2500, 89,000 miles Truck developed bad miss under load with check engine light. Took it in, Stealership cleared codes and said "could not dup" They charged me 106.00 for diagnostics (apparently only lubed parts are covered in 5/100,000 powertrain) I picked it up after hours, and as soon as...

www.ramforumz.com

To add some perspective, pushrod engines have been known to wipe a cam lobe from time to time, its not new or exclusive to any specific engine. In fact, if you Google it, the first page and a half or so of results for cam failures are GM vehicles. Further, Chrysler has made millions of these engines so it is hard for us to get a good idea of how common it really is since not everyone who owns one is a member here. People are also more likely to join a forum to tell about an issue they have than they are to join and talk about how trouble free their truck has been.

My 2013 and my dad's 2009 Rams both have this engine; I have around 101,000 miles on mine and his is close to 140,000 (162,000 and 225,000 km respectively). Neither of us have had any engine related problems aside from a couple of exhaust manifold bolts breaking-which is pretty minor and fairly common on a lot of different engines with aluminum heads and cast iron manifolds.

You can go with an overhead cam engine like Ford's Coyote 5.0L where wiping a lobe is less likely to happen and doesn't require pulling the heads to fix so its easier. But then your timing chains are a really long and you can have timing issues that send a valve into a piston and cause a catastrophic failure, requiring an engine replacement, rather than just a top end rebuild. The newer ones with the Plasma Transfer Wire Arc (PTWA) lined cylinders also have oil consumption issues even when brand new (like under 5000 miles). I believe they were replacing engine blocks for that under warranty. Plus then you'd have to drive a Ford

 

Not really an exaggeration at all, its a common problem with these engines. I have a 2012, bought it last year with 36,000 mi, after a 1600mi have the same issue, can't get Dodge to cover it. After tearing it down, there is scoring on the cam, on the cam bearings, etc.

Anyone have experience with this below?

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As far as longer oil changes, I am in fact talking about the computer prompts - which can often be up to 10,000 miles.

Again this is not for durability but rather to satisfy JD Power cost of ownership and ALL manufacturers are doing this.
For me, even running a premium filter and a good full synthetic oil I still feel 10k miles is too long of an oil change interval if you wish to keep the vehicle for a long time.

Also you are out of warranty, you bought an extender service contract - they are not the same thing. But to be honest, they should treat you the same - but the rules are different for service contracts vs. manufacturer warranty. Though they said it is bumper to bumper, it is in fact not. It is close to the 3/36 miles factory warranty which isn't even bumper to bumper as it excludes some items. The 1/12 factory warranty is the only bumper to bumper that covers everything.
You probably had to pay the $88 because you may have had a deductible - read your contract. There are varying deductibles depending on which contract you bought.
For example, I have the Mopar Maxcare w/$100 ded. per visit. Those bolts are covered and I would have to pay the first $100 for that visit.

Get your oil change records and as long as you are under the 10,000 miles/1 year rec. (or whatever it is in km in your owners manual) you at least have a fighting chance. "Dirty" oil isn't an argument if the documented oil changes are within the rec. window.

How did they take pictures of the seized wrist pin? This is impossible unless they removed the piston from the block. A seized wrist pin will not move - definition of seized. And if it did break loose without breaking the piston, well then it would most likely get very loose quickly and have a deeper knock vs. a tick.

 

I hope the LubeX shop is using the correct spec oil - there are not many oils that meet the Chrysler spec.
You will need the brand of oil used by them as well as the filter manufacturer.

Many ticks on the hemi, can be solved with a premium oil and some filters unless damage has occurred.

As a rule I avoid those places with my personal vehicle.

 

Y

I hope the LubeX shop is using the correct spec oil - there are not many oils that meet the Chrysler spec.
You will need the brand of oil used by them as well as the filter manufacturer.

Many ticks on the hemi, can be solved with a premium oil and some filters unless damage has occurred.

As a rule I avoid those places with my personal vehicle.

Your messages are motivating me to fight back harder! Thank you!

 

Threw all of what away? I’m not paying Mountain View Dodge in Olds another dime once I pay the bill for the alleged 5 hours @ $150/hr of diagnostic and disassembly time they claim to have spent “diagnosing“ a seized wrist pin. We need the truck to actually be repaired this time, “Dodge certified experts” have had three kicks at the can. Yes, there may be an initial financial hit, but we’re willing to make that sacrifice to hopefully prevent other loyal Dodge customers from being treated so egregiously. I have the time, the motivation, expert testimony and a $7,400 extended warranty so I won’t need luck as long as I get an honest judge. I’m confident we’ll recoup our losses.

It‘s time a non-profit organization was created to assist owners of vehicles more than 4 years old who are facing bad faith warranty refusals, factory defect denials, and extended warranty price gouging because salesmen are encouraged by dealerships to “get what they can” out of a customer when selling an extended warranty. AMVIC can’t do a thing to help Albertans in any of these issues.

 

Actually, it is an inherent thing with all pushrod engines and doesn't hurt anything.
Over night the lifter can bleed down a bit, the oil can drain out of the filter/oil passages and it takes a couple of seconds for oil to fill everything - it has been like this since the dawn of hydraulic lifters.
In fact when using mechanical lifters there is a built in clearance that exists between the lifter/pushrod/cam/rocker.

It doesn't happen constantly (only on startup) unless you have a failed lifter that won't pump up.

Also, you do run out of oil every once in a while - every time you shut the motor off. And it doesn't hurt a thing as it is only for couple of seconds in a no load situation and when the parts have the most clearance.

 

Actually, it is an inherent thing with all pushrod engines and doesn't hurt anything.
Over night the lifter can bleed down a bit, the oil can drain out of the filter/oil passages and it takes a couple of seconds for oil to fill everything - it has been like this since the dawn of hydraulic lifters.
In fact when using mechanical lifters there is a built in clearance that exists between the lifter/pushrod/cam/rocker.

It doesn't happen constantly (only on startup) unless you have a failed lifter that won't pump up.

Also, you do run out of oil every once in a while - every time you shut the motor off. And it doesn't hurt a thing as it is only for couple of seconds in a no load situation and when the parts have the most clearance.

Pretty much dieagree with everything in this post.
First of all they put check valves in to stop oil bleed down overnight.Like I said no reason for valve train noise or wear in this day and age.And as small as the damage might be from this noise it is still damage.As far as built-in clearance in solid lifters it's really minimal and is there for expansion reasons only.If there's clearance there's wear,doesn't matter how you slice or dice it and it will only get worse.

 

Why not just try a different dealer?
Change the oil/filter and go to another dealer and see what they say. Don't tell them anything about the current dealer or the situation, just make an appointment and say you have to wait on it. Well if possible under the current conditions.

It literally doesn't take long to pull the valve covers and check the cam/lifters - if it is wiped they should see at least one that isn't moving the full range of motion.

If it is a deeper knock in the bottom end, they should be able to hear that pretty quickly and say so. The sounds are distinctly different.

Your biggest argument will be your oil change records - I will be honest, if you went over on miles or time they can legally deny your claim as when you bought it you inherently agreed to maintain the vehicle to the owners manual standards.

Unfortunately, you didn't do your homework before paying full price for the extended service contract. Does it say Mopar Protection Plan on the paperwork? Many dealers sell fly by night off brands extended service contracts.

I wish you luck.

 

Thunderhorse - are you aware of information that FCA fixed the sticking valve lifters? I read they "changed suppliers" starting 2017, but haven't heard anything since. I have a 2017, btw.

 

If you are referring to the oil filter "check" valve, it is an anti-drain back valve and doesn't seal anything like a check valve.
On top of that, all are not created equally.
There are no check valves in the rest of the system and the oil will bleed out after a given time. Hint - read your oil pressure gauge with the key on and engine off after shutting off the motor - pressure will drop to zero, so the oil and pressure went somewhere.

Hate to tell you BUT with mechanical lifters there is ALWAYS clearance - just more when cold vs. hot but it never gets eliminated and when you adjust it so that lash=0 when hot, the engine will not run correctlly.

 

If you are referring to the oil filter "check" valve, it is an anti-drain back valve and doesn't seal anything like a check valve.
On top of that, all are not created equally.
There are no check valves in the rest of the system and the oil will bleed out after a given time. Hint - read your oil pressure gauge with the key on and engine off after shutting off the motor - pressure will drop to zero, so the oil and pressure went somewhere.

Hate to tell you BUT with mechanical lifters there is ALWAYS clearance - just more when cold vs. hot but it never gets eliminated and when you adjust it so that lash=0 when hot, the engine will not run correctlly.

 

All pushrod engines, including Toyota V-6's and all Hondas this century leak-down when the oil pressure is shut-off. The variable valve timing engines are often the worst, but there are ways of hiding from the driver (Honda does this) but they "wipe cams" at about 5 times the rate of Hemis based on a mechanic friend's experiences with both plus the "secret book" of repair failures available to ASE Certified Mechanics. Overhead cam engines aren't perfect either. There are two systems on OHC engines, the "clearance" and the "crash". If the camshaft doesn't turn from a broken/stretched timing chain or broken/out of adjustment timing belt, the valves will either "clear" the piston tops or "crash" into them. If they "clear" you'll have some bent valve stems and maybe valve rockers, not terribly bad, if they "crash" you've ruined the head, the entire valve gear, and punched holes in the pistons, and probably worse, like the wreckage punching a hole in the block. Old straight six Chebbies , you could tell if they were running from the valve ticks. Solution; Marvel Mystery Oil, Alemite CD-2, Bardoil, or STP oil treatments. All are viscosity improvers for old-fashioned motor oils. They didn't fix anything, they just quieted things down. Be glad you don't own a Chebby 5.3L. Those are the least reliable V-8 ever made in history. My late uncle that sold them at one time in the small town of Henrietta, OK had 102 trucks waiting on new un-cracked engines. That was a the first or second year on them, and as usual, GM can't cast a usable aluminum block heico en Mehico.

 

My 2011 Ram 1500 engine failed at 77000 miles, the dealership did nothing for me, the oil was changed every 6 months with synthetic oil, the new engine cost me $10,000 , Mullen motors in southold ny , no help at all.

 

What happens when exhaust manifold bolts break? I have 2012 Ram hemi and mech thinks engine is seized. Going to open it up tomorrow

 

We’re on our seventh vehicles since 2005 that had 5.7 hemis; no engine problems with any.

 

I'm currently driving an 18 1500 5.7 with 44k on the clock. I haven't had one issue with it. Still sounds like it did the day I drove it off the lot with only 125 miles on it. I change the oil and filter every 5k and I even tow with it.

 

FCA Responsibility for Defects

I know it's a bad reminder of a litigious society, but has anybody thought about a class-action Lawsuit against FCA for the basic design defects in the 6.4L/392? For example, the defective lifter design that just ate my 2012 392 at 77,000 miles? There is no legitimate reason for such a basic...

www.challengertalk.com

 

Someone has to know what failed, or did I miss what killed it

 

So far so good just did the block heater and that is a real joke but at least I know what is involved with changing the starter.

 

 

Ok them my 2013 ram 1500 with the 5.7 hemi I have 146000 miles on it and number 3 cylinder is dead why hole in piston because of faulty lifter. Any come back on RAM I kept the oil changed with a synthetic blend every 4 to 5 thousand miles.now a total engine replacement is needed at a cost of $11,000 any recourse on RAM?

 

I'm glad you posted this, as your lifter issue had absolutely nothing to do with MDS.
And no, you're on your own for that one.

 

Yep I figured, It's no suprize to me that RAM knew about the problem and yet does not want to fix it. I'm told the new version of 5.7 hemi does not have the problems the older version 5.7 hemi has. Now do I replace the engine or sell truck as is with 147,000 miles on it.

 

This is why I always warn friends looking at these trucks. The Hemi is a great engine when it’s working, but when it’s not, you better be ready to fight or pay. I went the replacement route early on and found a decent Dodge 5.7 engine for sale out of a wrecked 2011. Got lucky and it’s been solid so far. But yeah, document everything and don’t let the dealer bully you into silence. CAMVAP exists for a reason—use it.